Honoring the Mexican cultural history of shaman and poet María Sabina with Paola Castelo
EP 38

Honoring the Mexican cultural history of shaman and poet María Sabina with Paola Castelo

Show Notes: 

People are yearning for reconnection, and for a variety of reasons, ceremonial rituals and psychedelic sacred plants are something we are continually called back to. My guest today, Paola Castelo, is dedicated to helping others reconnect with Mexican heritage by preserving and amplifying Mexican culture through art on her online platform Vuelta Sur. In this episode, Paola opens up about how her passion for preserving Mexican culture originated, the project she is collaborating on with Fungi Foundation to preserve and honor the life and impact of shaman and poet María Sabina. 

Paola shares and celebrates the rich stories of Mexican culture by collaborating with museums, contemporary artists, and master artisans to showcase their stories and offer global access to their work. Throughout our conversation, she explains the materials and formats of indigenous art and the role of artists in the ancient world. 

Our discussion is focused on the story of María Sabina, a shaman and poet who introduced psilocybin mushrooms to the Western world. Paola breaks down Maria's impact and legacy on future generations and Vuelta Sur's devotion to sharing her lessons and practices. This can be demonstrated through the museum Vuelta Sur is building in collaboration with The Fungi Foundation in Maria's honor, which contains one of the most comprehensive collections of Masoretic records and textiles. She also explains how you can be involved in its creation!

 

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favorite podcast platform. 

Topics Covered:

  • The ways Vuelta Sur preserves and amplifies Mexican culture through art
  • How Paola reconnected to her Mexican heritage, ancestry, and roots while living in Canada 
  • The significance of Mexican art and culture within the Latin American heritage
  • The materials and formats of indigenous art from looms to pottery to textiles
  • A background on the shaman and poet María Sabina and how she helped launch Mexican heritage into Western culture 
  • Details of the museum that is being built in Maria's honor
  • What future generations can learn from María Sabina's legacy 
  • The resilience of ceremonial rituals and psychedelic sacred plants
  • How you can be involved in the museum 
  • Paola’s personal connection to fungi 

Resources Mentioned:

Guest Info: 

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Show Transcript:

Tonya Papanikolov  00:00

Hello, Paola, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. It's such a pleasure to have you on the show today and to be connecting with you.

 

Paola Castelo  00:08

Hi, Tonya. Thank you for having me.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  00:10

So I would love to start with just hearing, grounding into one thing you're grateful for today,

 

Paola Castelo  00:16

I would say I'm grateful for the health of our family, all the love of friends and community, that we get to live between Mexico and Canada. It's such a, it's such a treat. And I'm so grateful for that.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  00:32

I want to hear more about that, in general. And thank you for sharing that. I'm going to also I think, mirror off of that, too. I think just feeling really grateful. I've just spent the month with my family. And it's so nice to be with my mom and dad and sister and nieces and just so grateful for everybody's health. And I think in the moments where you have little health scares, you can really, which can happen all the time from ranging from big to small, I think you get that reprioritization and perspective again on how important health is. So I love that I'm going to share that with you today. Why don't we start by telling our listeners a little bit about who you are. And the beautiful projects organization that you have created who you are, you're a mother, you're an artist, you are a maker of many kinds. So why don't we start there and give our listeners a little bit of a background.

 

Paola Castelo  01:26

So my name is Paola, and I'm originally from Sonora, Mexico. And I've been living in Canada for about 16 years now. And we're very lucky that we now get to for the past five years, we get to share our time between Mexico and Canada so that our daughters get to experience my dear culture. And so I'm an artist, a mother, a storyteller, and I work in the arts and culture of Mexico. And we work sharing the stories of people in the arts and culture. It could be an artist could be a museum, it could be a master artisan. We work in collaborate with everyone enriching Mexican culture pretty much and sharing their stories, sometimes and interviews sometimes a full video images. Beautiful.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  02:17

Okay, and so let's pronounce this together. Vuelta Sur. Right. Well, let's see. Right. Yeah. Okay. This is a couple years old, right? So how did was this a dream of yours for a long time? Did this kind of evolve naturally after the girls were born? Or how did it come to be? And yeah, maybe you can tell us a bit about well, tesoros mission and vision as well, of course,

 

Paola Castelo  02:40

Vuelta Sur, you might mean circling the South, it's like you're because I was in the north. So you're in the north, and then you go back south, and you go into this full circle. And you get to learn about Mexican culture. And so it's been about four years that I started the page. So it just started as when I had my first daughter, I took a sabbatical, and I decided to quit the industry I was in before. And as it happens, I don't know, when you have kids, you really try to do meaningful work for them to see as well. And so I just started this Instagram page, sharing parts of books that I started collecting about Mexican culture. And so it was very obscure or rare images that maybe a lot of people have not seen.

 

Paola Castelo  03:32

And I was really digging in the internet for rare books and rare contact or even wear videos. Because I wanted to see Mexico being shown with my own lens, to be honest, because I was tired of seeing how was portrayed in the media by the United States as your typical hat and the donkey and that the Killa. And it's just like constant making fun of it. I know that we're all but there's so much more to it. Every state, every province in Mexico has different First Nations and different food and different ingredients and so much history. 4000 years of history that we know of, but there's probably so much more. So I started sharing online. And I would highly even spend time and it was just kind of sharing information images. And a lot of these popular pages on Instagram, you know, like the inspiration features started posting about it or sharing. And it really started growing overnight. And I thought oh, people really liked that. They like this content, and I love it. And so I just continue to share and that's how it started growing. And now we're a bit more much more established and has developed into an online platform dedicated to preserving and amplifying Mexican culture through art. And so we collaborate with contemporary artists, museums, galleries, Master artisans, and we share the stories so that our global audience can learn about their work and share In whatever our mission and our vision is that we're here to preserve and amplify Mexico's cultural heritage through authentic storytelling, and we empower artists, and so forth, everyone who enriches the culture, ensuring the legacy continues to thrive. And our vision is to be the leading platform where cultures are value celebrating, and where artistic expression service bridges that connect and unite us all.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  05:28

From Yeah, so beautiful. Wow. I always love when things organically just evolve out of you. I think some of the best businesses are born that way that really resonates. And I didn't know that. So thank you, thank you for sharing that. That's how it came to be. It was really just through passion. And I'm gonna find this because I love it. That's beautiful. I imagine maybe through this process, you know, you've been reconnecting to your ancestry and roots and Mexican heritage and culture. When did that start? You've been in Canada for 16 years. Was there a moment where you were like, like, I really miss this or how did you really start that reconnection back?

 

Paola Castelo  06:08

Yeah, I will say that way. So being in Canada, there was a time where I was waiting for my Canadian residency, and I couldn't leave the country for about three years. That really hit me. I really, I didn't mind being alone or not having family or friends for many years. And I didn't even speak English when I came here. But then after a while, and NSRS started getting older, I was yearning for it. Because I need Spanish music. I need the colors. I need the food. And I was so lucky to have met my now husband that loves Mexico. And he's He's a Canadian, but he speaks Spanish. And he already had a home in Mexico. And so I didn't have the intent to together with me at all. He was just he was in a really. So that was really great. And so where I grew up, I grew up in a very small town in the Sonora desert with 80,000 people. And I grew up at the ranch, I grew up very much in the dirt. It was like no roads until five years ago there. Wow. And so yeah, it was very special upbringing. Yeah.

 

Paola Castelo  07:20

And when I was a teenager, we moved to the city. And so part of my family is indigenous from the yaki of Sonora. And so part of them are, they look very indigenous, they look first nations and I started, when we went to the city, I saw the treatment that my mom got, or even the names they call indigenous people if they and I didn't like it. I was like, Well, why are people like this here? I didn't quite and I guess I was growing up. I was 15, I started seeing this other side of our culture that was very elitist. And the people that are, you know, European ancestry really want to grab to that and say, Well, I'm why I'm better than you. And I also living in a very small town, I never saw them. I only saw it when I was a teenager. And I really didn't like it. I didn't like how divided it was how my mom was treated as anyone as a single mother and the names that she was called a Ben Hur. And so I that's when I decided when I finished high school, I need to leave, I can't live in a place like this. And I read about Canada and I read about how diverse it was and accepted to other cultures. And so I came here and then years later, this hasn't even been long ago where my grandmother heard about with a suit. She's like, but she doesn't have Instagram.

 

Paola Castelo  08:44

You know, now we're doing a collaboration with the Frida Kahlo museum or the overwhelm. You see, oh, we're just like vaguer things happening. And she was like, Oh, that's amazing. And she knows we share a lot about First Nations or indigenous communities in Mexico, because I want people to feel proud of that ancestry not to be ashamed of it. And so my grandma said, Oh, I never told you this. But my mom only spoke kahibah, which is a Utah a second language family that the Yaquis speak well, and she said, and she learned Spanish when she was much older in her 20s. And I was like grandma Why didn't you tell me this? But she was so ashamed of it. Wow. She was She didn't want to be associated with being indigenous. She didn't want to be yucky. And I thought, Oh, wow, I wish I knew. Yeah, I wish I knew. And then she started sharing stories. Oh, and you know, she was like running the revolution for her life because they were enslaving all the Yaqui and all this while deep stories, and I just thought I just have grown up to be 34 And you never told me because you didn't want to be associated. Yeah. So I hope that now she's sharing more, she realizes that it's something so special, absolutely not some not something to be, you know, not trying to be associated with. So then I started reconnecting and reading so much more about the Yaqui and everything that has happened to them. And I knew that I was part Yaqui for my grandfather, my mom's side, but I didn't know it was also from my bedside, which was so interesting. That's

 

Tonya Papanikolov  10:27

so beautiful. So it's interesting to how something maybe in your soul was also calling you to take that path of creating both so and then discovering this information, you know, what I mean, like you and connecting with your ancestry seems to be a very deep aspect of what your soul was calling for, which is so beautiful. Yes. Can you tell us or maybe elaborate on the significance of Mexican art and culture within the broader context of Latin American heritage.

 

Paola Castelo  10:59

So, Mexican arts and culture hold up prominent place within the broader context of Latin American heritage, because we, so it reflects this rich tapestry of indigenous communities, but then you have all the colonial, then you have the modern influences, because we're so close to the United States. And so all of that have significantly shaped the region's identity. So I think Mexico continues to be a country that is searching for modernity, but it's also seeking to reclaim and rescue ancestral roots. And I think this is mainly through all the artists that continue to do this work. That's why I really emphasize when we share on artists that using all this new technology, but also they're using ancestral techniques or materials, so in a way, we don't lose them. And it continues to thrive for the new generations to come. So I think when an artist combines this, it's just so so interesting.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  12:03

What are some of the materials or formats of the indigenous art? There's, of course, tapestry and fabrics and things like this. Can you tell us a bit more about? Yeah, indigenous even like grandparents or great grandparents? What was art? Like then? Huh?

 

Paola Castelo  12:19

Yeah, of course. So it really depends on each region, I will say each so each region in Mexico is so diverse in pottery technique, or this specific clay they work with or how it works in account, even the way of building the homes before which there's still some buildings that are being done, but not not like before. And it was all so good for the environment, because it was done with clay and Derbe. And yeah, Adobe, and the way they glue the building together was with cartoons, so the cacti so you open it, and it has this, like you know, consistency there, it pretty much works with like glue. That's how they kept the houses through, which was like, Oh, you can do so cool. And so every region has different ways of even talking about the loom right, so you have the strap loom, you have all these different kinds of looms, depending on the region, then you have pottery, then you have all the textiles that are very popular from two declining Wahaca. And I will say me, Chaka Khan is incredibly rich in the way they work with different pottery techniques. And then also even the way they work with wood. So every region really has such a diverse way of working. And also, even painting and drawing is incredible when you can find in some of the like, if you really go deep into outside of Mexico City, the markets and the paintings that you can find it's incredible what they can do. And even talking about the weak side of it, which are people call them we've told she's a priority in people, but the work that they do also with Beats is just fascinating.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  14:03

So back then, do you think there was I think like through time, was the artist always that archetype for the purpose of just creating? Or was it more purposeful? Back then do you think or was it still just expression of many kinds, as

 

Paola Castelo  14:24

I understand, the artists in back in the day would go back to the ancient world because there's so much art that was created by then whatever we have left from it, it was incredible sculpture and carving. It was a lot of it was done for the queen or like the royal were ruling at the time. And what I have read is that yeah, it was very selected and they were teaching and they had schools. It was such an arts base culture back then not a not only like the Mayans and the Aztecs and the Olmecs and it was also The day that you were born, how you were, you were selected. So you were put as you are either going to work the land, so you were born this day, you were born to work the land away, or you're born to learn about astrology, or you're born to work in the arts, or you were born to be a warrior. And so it all really depends too on those dates on the style. The energy you were born with was the energy that you were gonna live.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  15:29

Oh, I didn't know that. That's so fascinating. So this kind of leads us to a very somebody that we both love and revere and look up to in a lot of ways and somebody that we wanted to talk about on this podcast. So can you tell us about the cultural history of the shaman and poet María Sabina. And then of course, we'll get into some of the exciting work and efforts that you're collaborating with some incredible people on to bring a lot of her life story, her artifacts art to a museum. So let's start with Yeah, a little bit about who she was for anybody that doesn't know.

 

Paola Castelo  16:07

Of course, yeah, Maria. Sabina was Revere, masseter, killer and poet. She was from wildlife, the humaneness and she was born in 1884. And she passed away in 1985. And she was the woman that share psilocybin mushrooms with the Western world. But in her region, it was used traditionally only to heal people when they were very ill. It was like one of the last resources used to heal someone during the lavas, which is ceremony. And this tradition was not only practiced by her, but it was practiced by many other Shamans in the region. And what I've known about her is that what made her really special and very popular was her singing the rhythm she had during ceremony, her dancing her movements, her points are incredible. And her powerful personality

 

Tonya Papanikolov  17:04

I was like just lost in that. Wow, yeah. So what can you tell us a little bit about the Westerners who came to visit her, and how that kind of launched her and Mexico into this Limelight within Western culture. And then, you know, the Beatles started wanting to go to Mexico for psilocybin trips and things like this.

 

Paola Castelo  17:29

Back in, I think it was in the 1950s, early 1950s. Marines Avena was pretty fearful of authority to really whatever the authority said, she would always say, Yeah, of course, I would do that. And so one day, the minister of the her community asked her to give a ceremony Malala to back in the day to to Gordon Watson. And so for my Yes, Amina, that was the first why be told man that she's ever met. And she's she asked, Is he ill? And they said, No, he's not ill. And I believe Gordon Watson lied about what he needed just to get through the ceremony and to make her do it. And she said, Well, okay, we'll do it, because the authorities asking me to share the mushrooms with you. But that's not something I do. And so she shared them with Gordon Watson at the time, and it was the first time he tried psilocybin. And so he and his wife visited her many times to learn about psilocybin to three different illnesses.

 

Paola Castelo  18:34

And in 1957, it was when the very popular Life magazine article was published, and it was one of the most impactful articles in modern history about psychedelics. It was called seeking the magic mushrooms. And it was really embodied Gordon Watson. And so Maria share her knowledge with Watson. And so he popularized it with Westerners after releasing the article, and later he wrote a book about his experiences in wildlife. And yeah, I mean, we know that there were so many popular rock stars or big names and writers and even Timothy Leary and Carlos Castaneda. John Lennon and even Albert Hofmann, they went there to visit her but in so many more people that we don't have really a record to prove but the visitor her to try psilocybin, because they never had before. And so what started happening wasn't necessarily what she would have liked it to happen, which was all of these people from the Western world trying to see God. And so she started saying, oh, when you guys are using it for something that we've never have used and and so you know, it was always used to ammonia. And then it became just a fun thing to do. And even Albert Hoffman, who is the founder of LSD synthesized psilocybin within two years of visiting my yes Have you know, they brought the mushrooms to Europe and synthesize them and, and patented them later, later?

 

Tonya Papanikolov  20:05

As early as like the late 50s or 60s? That's pretty crazy.

 

Paola Castelo  20:09

Yeah, it was pretty fast. And yeah. And then it just became so popular from the magazine and the books that all these people were coming in to get to try them. And then that's how they became so popular. Now.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  20:23

Thank you for sharing that. It's so wild. And I know that she was ousted from her community at some point too, because of the popularization. And I think in hindsight, of course, they were able to look back and say like, this is not what we intended. You are now working on building a museum in collaboration with fungi foundation and various others. Will you tell us about this museum that is being built in Maria's honor? Of

 

Paola Castelo  20:55

course, yeah. So this is this project is this archive contains one of the most comprehensive collections of Masoretic records and textiles so Masoretic is the Masoretic community, in wealth law. And so the collections contain, so records, textile, historic artifacts, and published documents, hundreds of published documents about what constructs their culture, and videos and recordings. And so it was all gathered by Renato Garcia during his lifetime, and he documented the history traditions of the Masoretic community. And so the collection is now in the hands of his son into Garcia. He is a master historian and according to his community's heritage, so sorry, Giuliana Furci from Fungi Foundation, who you know, she's so wonderful. When she visited watercolor years ago, the family have shown her this archives, and she couldn't believe what they've had there. So cultural treasure, really, and the rally of this incalculable.

 

Paola Castelo  21:57

And for the past three years with contributions from Paul Stamets and fungi Foundation, they have been cleaning all the archives, because it was all getting eaten by termites in the hog. And so it has taken over three years to even just digitalize or everything they have from their culture. And then so everything was clean, mostly all has been digitalized. But still there is a part of it hasn't. And it was moved into an area where it was better for conservation of it. And so the next call where water sewer and my organization comes in is to help fundraise to build the museum and acquire the land and anything welcome. And so it is totally, totally possible to do it. So we are we are trying to raise $300,000. And so with that we can easily buy the land and build part of the museum or continue the building of the museum. The museum is designed by a local architect in the vernacular Masoretic way of building. And I'll be happy to share any links also if people want to see it. And so that's where I that's where I come, I really want to help make this a reality. And a lot of people that we have had conversations with that are not only in the psychedelic community, but also in the arts and culture there. I'm very, very happy to help and to make this happen. I think it's such a beautiful reciprocity project for the Masoretic community as a way to first of all say thank you for sharing the knowledge you share back then. And you know, we're not talking about millions of dollars here. So I'm sorry, we can definitely make happen. Yeah. Wow,

 

Tonya Papanikolov  23:52

I got shivers. It's such a beautiful project to imagine giving back and also putting on display, the culture, the heritage, the artifacts, like I cannot wait to visit that when it's built. And I have no doubt that that will be happening pretty soon. Can you tell us a little bit more about maybe like, what kinds of artifacts have been will be in the museum that have been preserved? Maybe describing some of the videos that you mentioned and their significance? Also, I guess it's crazy that I guess video existed for a while that would have been on VHS. But what have you seen what? Yeah, what kind of artifacts are you really excited about?

 

Paola Castelo  24:33

So there are hundreds of unpublished documents right from the Masoretic culture, which is their language, customs, works of art ceremonies, medicinal plants, there is a lot of information on that. Traditions, textiles, pretty much all the constructs and forms that their culture and their videos they are all in VHS, and it's so expensive to digitalize and these videos are of their relevance or the ceremonies of right that María Sabina practice, and that have never been shown or seen by the public. And it just will be so incredible for the Masoretic community to have a place to see their heritage because a lot of it has been forgotten. They even have textiles from we we're spoken with empty, and they even have textiles from the 1700s. So that added to the collection. And I believe that there is only about two of us in the world. And I think one is in I don't know, in a museum in Europe somewhere, and then one would be here. And well there and are the artifacts, I haven't been lucky enough to go see the artifacts, I haven't seen more of the documentation, they have a lot of images from it. And as I was mentioning so much from the culture has been forgotten. I mean, it's been quite a long time. And so it's such a beautiful thing for the people of the community to go back. And what into Garcia also has been sharing is that a lot of people that have videos, or textiles or anything that's very precious about their culture have been sharing it with him so that it can go in the museum. So that it can have it can have its own, you know, place to live at home.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  26:13

 Yeah, that's so special. This is in the province of Wahaca.

 

Paola Castelo  26:18

This is in the province of what haka. Yeah. It's in woltlab. The humanists? Yeah. A few hours from the CD at Wahaca. Beautiful.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  26:25

And would you like to share one of Maria's poems?

 

Paola Castelo  26:29

Yeah. Okay. So I was just reading well, not long ago. You know, I've been getting my hands on all the books that I can from areas Avena and Eva, some of her chants that she did during ceremony. And there are some poems that you can find online, but I couldn't find it in the books. And I wanted to read something that was 100% from the book, because that way, I know that because this is her biography, and she was like a spoken biography. And then Alberto Estrada wrote it for her because he spoke mastertech She didn't actually speak Spanish. So this has been translated to Spanish from acetic and so okell started applying Tú que conocos son los sagrados que nos guían por el camino sembrado de cantos. Ábreme el cielo, muéstrame el mundo. Iníciame en el camino de la sabiduría. Déjame beber de los niños que nacieron, enséñame a hablar y leer el idioma de los sabios. Inúndame con el poder de los dioses, escribe mi nombre allí en el lugar sagrado. Estoy limpio. Mis alas son libres. Hacer hará que broten nuevas palabras. La lluvia nutrirá la sabiduría. Soy una estrella que brilla bajo el mar de piedra que baila en el cielo azul. Luz que viaja en tiempo crudo. Soy la vena del sol. Soy Canción. Soy danza y canto que cura.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  28:06

This is so beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that. Okay, I will share the English version. You know who the sacred who lead us on the pathway sown with songs. Open the sky to me, show me the world. start me on the path to wisdom. Let me drink from the children who sprang forth teach me to speak and read the language of the wise ones. Flood me with the power of the gods inscribe my name there in the sacred place. I am clean. My wings are free. Do will cause new words to sprout. Rain will nourish wisdom. I am a star that shines beneath the stone sea that dances in the blue sky. Light that travels in raw weather. I am the sun's vein. I am Song. I am dance and chant that heals. It's yeah, I love I love her poetry so much. Wow. I'm glad we did that. That's the first poetry read on the Rainbo podcast

 

Paola Castelo  29:28

yesterday. Now there we go.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  29:33

I love listening to the Spanish version. And there's a few points where I was like you can like receive the transmission without understanding all the words I feel. Thank you. Yeah, thank

 

Paola Castelo  29:44

you. Thank you.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  29:46

It's so clear, like the impact that the museum will have on the culture and the people and acting as this home and sacred space to honor the heritage and culture and all that been lost in the process and reconnecting others to their lineage. Are there any other impacts of María Sabina's legacy on future generations that you can imagine is that community there that was providing ceremonies? Is that still thriving in the same way? So I

 

Paola Castelo  30:20

think what we can learn from María Sabina is definitely resilience. And so we know that many indigenous spiritual practices were brutally persecuted and banned during the Spanish Inquisition and conquest. And so 1000s of people that were practicing with different medicines, natural medicines were slaughter, and it was not allowed, it was all prosecuted, and so that these rituals survive the events between the Inquisition to when Gordon West and goes and visits wildlife. To me, it really reveals the strong silence of the Masoretic people, and that of María Sabina, and I think many we can learn so much from many indigenous communities that are constantly to this day, being persecuted in many ways, and continue to hold their traditions and in practices, I

 

Tonya Papanikolov  31:19

couldn't agree more just to like kind of add to that, too, it's when you say, that really makes me think about how in our Western culture, because obviously, not only in, in Mexico, but also all over the US and Canada, the Europeans came in and, of course, did the same thing to the indigenous of these lands. And then, you know, we think about like where we are now. And having replaced the traditional medicine, the traditional ways to keep well and be connected to the land and the foods that we're eating, and all of the indigenous ways of life that was so like nature, ecology, food, community, culture, like all of that was so ingrained and created healthy society. And it's just so interesting, right to look at, like the introduction of Western medicine, and how that's great in a lot of ways not to, like totally tear it down at works in certain formats, but ultimately, that people are yearning for reconnection. And these ceremonial rituals and psychedelic Sacred plants are something that also are so resilient, and are also something that we are called back to, for a range of reasons that people seek them out. But ultimately, like the people that really need it, for healing for disease and things like this, it's just really fascinating, just comparing, like, where we went with Western versus looking at the indigenous way of living in life and medicine and just care.

 

Paola Castelo  32:50

Yeah, exactly. I think María Sabina was so courageous to continue sharing, because as we know, she was also put in jail, her house was burned down. And these medicines were, as we were used traditionally, for ceremonial purposes only, and for people that were very ill. But and now we are seeing this billion dollar industry that continues to grow. And I think you know, what, it's incredible in a way, and it's sad in a way that we can stop somebody from patenting something. And also, I think it's great that so many more people now have access to the medicinal powerful qualities of psilocybin, especially for mental health and for the for the pression. For in society, I think it's incredible that people can have access to it. And I think there are a lot of people doing it in really beautiful and very respectful ways. And there are people that are in Ohio, and so it just kind of, there's always both,

 

Tonya Papanikolov  33:56

there's always the full gamut. There's always both. And when when I think about the whole earth, like one family of humanity, it's like, no matter how much anybody can try and beat the tribal parts of us out of us, we will find our way back, like, we all got into the mess together. And slowly we are finding our way back to what we all know. So inherently in our bones, and that's a beautiful, chaotic experience. ,

 

Paola Castelo  34:32

Yeah no, I'm so glad that that we can do it. And then we still have it. And then we have these will be going back to the museum. It will be the first museum in the region.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  34:41

Wow.

 

Paola Castelo  34:43

Wow, that's special. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  34:47

Any last details you want to share about the museum the fundraiser, how people can get involved where we can find you? We will link everything in our show notes as well, of course, but any final notes there? Yeah, of course.

 

Paola Castelo  35:00

We're first we're hosting a fundraising event in Vancouver, and we're going to have Paul Stamets as a speaker. And so we're hosting the event with fungi Foundation. And our goal is to raise the funds to purchase a piece of the land for the museum. And from there, we're going to start a year online campaign so that everyone that is not in Vancouver for the big event can also get together to raise funds. And I think it's a really beautiful way for the community to contribute to the construction of the museum. And I think it's also a really beautiful way to help align the history of fungi in North America and at least how it became popularized and gave a thank you to the communities that shared it with us ensuring that the continuation of this vital legacy right and so I think it really deserves global sharing.

 

Paola Castelo  35:54

And I think a lot of the people that are interested in this will be happy to share and honestly if it's $20 or $500, it really it is a where you're already part of it. If you donate even that little bit or much you are such a big part of that building of this like historical treasure have actually been preserved. And then hopefully when they people can go and see it in real life. And so the the event we have in Vancouver, if anyone in Vancouver is listening, it's on September 1 And so we will share the link as well for for those tickets will be a great event and then we will be sharing all nine pictures when we start our sorry when we links for our online campaign and that would be all of our social media and as well with fungi foundation as well with a story SMS attic as it's called. So the archivist story is immemorial Xmas Atticus which is the histories and the memories of the Masoretic community. So we will be doing a lot of collaborations and everything to continue continue sharing this

 

Tonya Papanikolov  36:53

beautiful, thank you. And what I am curious as well, what your kind of relationship connection to Fungi to mushrooms, anything you want to share with us about that?

 

Paola Castelo  37:07

Oh my god. It began when I was 21. In Canada, of course, as many that have had psilocybin can probably remember it as a day that changed them, at least in my experience. And so it really changed my life. I think it it changed me in in the sense that it undercard the models of who I thought who I was, and all the socialization and child development and conditioning that had left me with a very strong somebody in is a really cut that out. And of course there was fear and losing that familiar identity. But there was always also a wonder, because it touch a place in me that it was behind all of my social roles. And anyways, I will say it was through precedents, it was myself. And from that day on, of course, I was like what is how can I how can you stay in that state of blissfulness and carry it out throughout your life and carry out this love that you receive? But you know, as soon as you're out of it, you're like, on the walls and conditioning and everything goes back?

 

Tonya Papanikolov  38:24

Yeah. Yeah, best beautiful. Honestly, every time I ask somebody that question I get like, I feel like I'm on mushrooms when they give me their answer. Because like, you know, it's just it's such a felt, felt experience. What would you say kind of your biggest, I mean, you just shared but like, is that your big kind of takeaway from mushrooms and like how they've woven their way into kind of your journey as you've grown up.

 

Paola Castelo  38:48

I've actually until a month ago, never have had a ceremony. And it was my husband and I are number three. I was like, I have a plan.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  38:59

This is good.

 

Paola Castelo  39:00

He's like, oh gosh, what is she going to ask me to do? We're gonna have a ceremony and I got to introduce to this incredible woman. And she's from Mexico and she's been guiding ceremonies for 15 years, she's you know, and you go on this dome in the forest and she plays every instrument and sings and the harp and it's so beautiful. And I was so you know, you the ceremony and then your eyes are cover and you take more than you would ever eat in a normal day or, but it's all very therapeutic. And so we're there and deep in and I keep asking it was almost like a conversation with source or a conversation with the plant. I'm not sure. I would ask oh, this or that and then I would just get the answer. And then I asked I was like why can I just why can I just be happy all the time. Happy to my husband and I'll be doing my my daughter's like just happy all the time. And this you know, it's not a voice it's not it's like a message but you can't you just know it's there in the voice said, you can't. And I was like, and I said how is it that you can always come from a place of love and everything you do. So you can come from a place of love and the way you treat everyone around you, you know, your family, your friends, your work, and I thought, oh my god

 

Tonya Papanikolov  40:31

Wow, it's so big. It's so beautiful because that is like the reservoir of your own wisdom. You know, that's speaking that's that's just there waiting for us to unlock it and listen, but wow, thank you for sharing that experience that I love the love hearing that personal experiences. That's really beautiful. That was in Mexico that experience and with the harps and

 

Paola Castelo  40:55

That was actually in Squamish in British Columbia.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  40:59

Oh my gosh, that's so incredible.

 

Paola Castelo  41:03

Yeah, but this woman who's like a fairy from the walrus, mushroom fairy and shelving guiding, you know, she's like, late 40s. And she's been guiding forever. And what an I was just so lucky to even get to know her. Are you here?

 

Tonya Papanikolov  41:20

When next time Simon and I are in Squamish, maybe for our anniversary. Perfect. Well, thank you, Paola, so so much for coming on and sharing everything about what you're doing your cultural history, the project that you're working on just María Sabina everything. I'm so grateful for it. I'm so excited to be a part of this project and help and attend the event. And just get the get the message out there. And I would love for you to share one prayer intention, something to leave our audience with today.

 

Paola Castelo  41:57

Of course, so since a month ago since this, I've had this prayer that I repeat during meditation in the morning, and is May I come from a place of love and everywhere I sit and where I come from a place of love and every action I take today.

 

Tonya Papanikolov  42:18

Thank you.

 

Paola Castelo  42:19

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

 

Keywords:

Vuelta Sur, Mexican heritage, Mexican culture, Latin America, María Sabina, art, art preservation, pottery, textiles, Yaqui, Masoretic, Indigenous, fungi, Fungi Foundation, ceremonial rituals, traditions, psilocybin mushrooms, healing, traditional medicine 

 

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