Health and Transformation, Naturally: Rachelle Robinett on Herbs, Healing & Inner Alignment
EP 52

Health and Transformation, Naturally: Rachelle Robinett on Herbs, Healing & Inner Alignment

Show Notes: 

In this episode, Tonya is joined by clinical herbalist and holistic health educator Rachelle Robinett for a deep dive into herbal medicine, nervous system healing, and the real meaning of wellness. Together, they explore how plants can support our physiology and emotions, what it means to become truly resourced from within, and how we can shift our relationship with stress, regulation, and even capitalism. Rachelle shares her personal journey of rebuilding her system after burnout, her unique lens on herbalism as both art and science, and how self-awareness is the truest root medicine of all.

Topics Covered:

  • Rachelle’s transition from burnout to body-based healing
  • Herbs and adaptogens for nervous system support
  • Reframing “healing” through self-regulation and resourcing
  • The body as nature: plants, physiology, and emotional awareness
  • When wellness becomes performance and how to return to truth
  • Why healing is less about fixing and more about remembering

Guest Info:

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Show Transcript:

Tonya Papanikolov [00:00:04]: Hi, welcome to the Rainbo Podcast. I'm your host, Tonya Papanikolov. Love Rainbo and I are on a mission to upgrade humanity with fungi and expand the collective conscious. This podcast builds a virtual mycelial network of bold, open minded thinkers and seekers. I chat with experts, thought leaders, healers, scientists, entrepreneurs, spiritual teachers, activists and dreamers. These are stories of healing, human potential and expansion. Tune in, root in, expand and journey with us. Today I'm sitting down with Rochelle Robinette, who is an amazing woman. She's a writer, an artist, a registered herbalist, and is a human dedicated to exploring the human experience via many creative explorations and expressions of naturalness. Richelle is widely regarded as a vanguard in wellness and a thought leader. She just released her first book, it is out now. It is called the Herbalist's Guide to Health and Transformation and it is linked in the show notes. I could not recommend picking up this book enough. It is like an encyclopedia that you have at your fingertips. It is so well researched and so beautifully done and such an expression of Richelle and her life's work and her dedication to the healing power of plants. And in this episode we chat about so many things. Why herbalism is both an art and a science, and how writing has become a ritual for her and a pathway to transformation. We dive into the consciousness of plants, the medicine of unlearning, and things that her and I are both unlearning and why we don't feel like we need plant medicine anymore because life is just super psychedelic. And Richelle shares her relationship with a really interesting plant called Kava. And this really piqued my interest. If you're interested in knowing exactly which Kava Rachelle loves and uses, it's linked in the show notes so you can find it there and I recommend trying that out. If you want to try out rainbo products, you can use the discount code the Rainbo Podcast for a discount on your order. And if you are loving this show, please rate it, give us five stars and send us a review as well on Apple Podcasts. I can't express how much that helps with getting the podcast out to more people means the world to me. So please support this work and these stories and the work of all of the amazing people who are on the pod. Let's dive into the episode. Hi Richelle. Hi, welcome.

Rochelle Robinette [00:02:51]: So happy to be here.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:02:52]: Oh, thank you. I'm so happy to have you. Welcome to the Rainbo Podcast. I would like to start the way we always start, which is what are you grateful for today?

Rochelle Robinette [00:03:01]: I mean, so, so much in this moment, I'm pinching myself every day right now. Having this book coming out is truly a lifelong dream come true. From the time I was a little girl, I wanted to write and I didn't have the courage to pursue that as my original career path. But it's happening now, and that makes me so happy. I mean, I try to be grateful for the smallest things. Like I'm walking up the steps of the subway, you know, and I'm like, I'm grateful my legs work today. That is a thing. Life is beautiful right now. I really have just about everything to be grateful for.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:03:35]: So, yeah, I love that I echo that sentiment. And what I was tuning into this morning was the power of the body to heal. I got this rash on my legs. I won't go into too many details, but putting aloe vera on it and resting and seeing it and just really trusting my body when I think in previous times I would really freak out a bit or go to the doctor or whatever the case may be, and just being like, you know what? This is an expression. And I trust my body. And being in witness to the miraculous natural healing powers of the body.

Rochelle Robinette [00:04:08]: Our bodies are brilliant. And it's true that so often for healing, the best thing we can do is get out of the way. Support it, but get out of the way.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:04:16]: So, yeah, trust it. Interesting. Let's start with your book. Will you tell us? I know this has been like at least a two year process and would love for you to tell us just the whole ethos of this book and what it's about and what a moment that must feel so surreal. I can relate to that feeling of being like, there's a book. It will come. I don't know when.

Rochelle Robinette [00:04:40]: Of course there is. Yes. I mean, I have her here. She's never far away from me. Now, naturally, it is big. Yes. Has a lot of resources. And the material itself that you're actually sort of reading through is about maybe three quarters of what you see in the physical copy. And there are a lot of resources in the back that include a set of recipes that include a really useful herb use table where it lists all the herbs that are in the book, plus many others and the best forms to take them in. Which I think is a resource that's really valuable and kind of missing in the industry right now. Like a quick reference guide, you know, I want to take lavender or chamomile or ashwagandha. What do I need to know about dosing or preferred formats. And the book overall is written to be, yes, beginner friendly, but anyone with any degree of understanding about herbalism already is going to learn plenty. We love to learn from our colleagues if we're already in this industry. Right. Everybody has different approaches and philosophies, but naturally really sets up, what is herbalism? Why is it relevant for modern life today? How do I use it? And then takes us through different categories of herbs and how they correspond to the body. So we have the nervous system and nervines, adaptogens, and the whole concept of stress and balance. And each chapter focuses on a category of herbs, a client case study. So you get to see them in practice, see them changing someone's life. And then I also like to look at them from a more philosophical standpoint and say, if we're talking about the nervous system and nervines, why don't we consider the idea of listening and the role of listening in health? You know, since our nervous system is constantly listening to the environment and how can we learn to listen to ourselves? So it's really, really comprehensive, it's holistic, and it's meant to be a pleasure to read. I really, really wanted it to be not a textbook. I wanted it to be a literary experience that would move people and inspire people and leave them feeling empowered and also like they had a good time reading it.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:06:47]: You have a poetic tone to your writing too, so I can only imagine. I can't wait to get my hands on my copy and. Okay, so this might be a bit of a difficult question to answer, but if you had to choose an herb to represent the book in its energetics or in its qualities, maybe this is not a possible question to answer. But would there be one?

Rochelle Robinette [00:07:12]: The first herb that comes to mind is the one that has sort of behind the scenes, represented so much for me. I mean, it's built into the name of my company, Pharmakon Supernatural. It was part of my childhood, and in some sort of abstract sense, it. Now, I suppose the COVID illustration is not of a literal plant. All of the plants are conceptual and sort of abstract. But I would probably say nettle. And I would say nettle, because nettle is a pharmakon, which is the idea that something can be both a poison and the cure. And nettle, of course, in the wild, it's stinging nettle. It causes this sort of allergic reaction, this histamine reaction. And then when we use it internally, it's an antihistamine. It's. Yeah, it's such a beautiful herb. And it's also a Food, it's such a nourishing, again, kind of holistic healer that's very easy to use in large quantities. So I think it would be nettle, because we are the longest friends of any of the plants. And because it so many things represents the idea too, that everything in moderation. And if not in moderation, then we aren't getting the medicine or we're causing an imbalance on the sort of quote unquote, poison side or pushing things too far. So I love that question.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:08:28]: I love that answer. I mean, nettle is so universal. I think that's one of my favorite herbs for just like, how soothing it is. And it's crazy to think about who found that herb and was stung by it, but then was also like, let's try ingesting this. And to be an early pioneer and forager and gatherer in the world would be what an experience. So many people must have passed away at the sheer, like, curiosity of like, oh, that one didn't work. That mushroom was a little.

Rochelle Robinette [00:09:02]: And we are so grateful to them.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:09:05]: We are endlessly grateful to them, truly speaking, I guess, of. Well, actually, one thing I want to add to that too, is I love the way you said that. And something I've been thinking about lately has just been the way we use words in the way that you just describe something being both the cure and the poison. And, you know, I really believe that our words are our creative power in the world, and they are what separates us from so many different species on this planet, for better or worse, whatever the case may be. Not to kind of put us anywhere in this hierarchy, but just sitting with the idea. Idea that words can be white magic, they can be black magic, they can be the thing that connects us, and they can be poisoned both internally and externally. And there's just a lot of nuance that I feel the natural world, the way that it mirrors our experience. And this is something that I. The deeper I go into my relationship with plants and mushrooms and the natural world, the more I see this mirroring in every way. It's such a. I don't even know what to call the experience. But what do you think about the consciousness that plants hold? And how would you describe that? How would you speak to that in a way that is like, what do they know that we maybe have forgotten?

Rochelle Robinette [00:10:19]: Yeah, that's a beautiful sentiment. And I think as a lifelong writer, I definitely feel the same way about words, spoken words, exchanged words, but also, of course, our thoughts and the power of what we articulate for ourselves. The Stories we tell ourselves on a daily basis over the course of our lives. I've actually become very aware of and very kind of mindful or even careful of the stories that I tell myself. Not necessarily in the moment, but when describing my path or my history or how I got here. Because I think we love to create meaning, we need to create meaning in our life, or we think we do, and we do that with storytelling. But I think sometimes, of course, there's a certain degree of freedom, but there's a degree of accepting the unknown or the mystery perhaps when we see to tell stories and just let things be. So that's something that I've kind of employing lately. And in terms of the natural world, I think my relationship with the natural world, herbalism, plants, nature in general, is that there is a wisdom there that is of course, well, for me at least non verbal. But that doesn't make it any less brilliant in the same way that our bodies are brilliant and we know things before we articulate them for ourselves. We haven't embodied cosmos, cognition, we have an intuition. So I'm truly and always have been fascinated by that space between or right before we articulate things. And again, I think a lot of that comes from being a writer and needing to find the right words for certain things. But there's a space before we do that, and I think in that space that is where and how we can often connect with the natural world as well. It's a feeling thing, it's an intuitive thing, it's an energetic thing. And there can be trust and there can be love, and there can be relationship and there can be education and there can be so many things that come out of that. So of course it's brilliant. I mean, it's so much older than we are and has so many lessons for us to learn. Just being in the presence of nature and allowing ourselves to absorb whatever it is we're absorbing, I think is always medicinal.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:12:31]: I love that. And you often describe herbalism as a science and an art. And so I wonder if did you come into this through science or was it through a spiritual lens? How has that developed? And then similarly with the science and art lens, it's like, how do you, I guess, bridge ancient and modern in your work and through the book and everything that you do?

Rochelle Robinette [00:12:55]: I definitely approached this from the time I was very young, from a more spiritual, philosophical perspective. I've always been interested in the, I mean the human experience, truly. Like, what is life, what is truth, what is reality, what is consciousness? This stuff. And I write about that, and naturally, the word that I used as a young person to describe that stuff was nests. It's like the nest. This sort of. It's right here. You can't put your finger on it, but, like, we're immersed in it and what is it? I was determined. I was like, I will figure this out. I will encounter this. And that's really where it began for me. I mean, I grew up in nature primarily, so I was standing in the middle of a field, not able to see my nearest neighbor out there, really immersed in that ness, if you will, in the breeze, in the intelligence of nature. That felt so alive and so much like a companion that I was like, I want to understand this. So that exposure and then that desire to understand. One of the ways that we understand things is by articulating them. And then my inclination to write are all deeply intertwined. And that just began my journey, which started before I was old enough to even understand what I was reading. When I was reading, like, William James and things, I was determined to try to understand this stuff. So I studied the world's spirituality. By nature of that, I was exposed to a lot of the world's healing traditions. Traditional Chinese medicine, ayurveda. I studied pretty much anything sort of related to that topic that I could get my hands on. It could be philosophy, science, physics, psychology, magic, medicine, you name it. Yoga, Sanskrit, reiki. I just did it all. And again from the time I was very young. And at the same time, I also had early exposure to traditional medicine, meaning natural medicine, and also allopathic or western medicine. My dad was a doctor. My mom still works as a functional health practitioner. So I understood things like vitamins and minerals and supplements and surgery and pharmaceuticals and all these things really early on, and had a personal practice of both tending to my health, but also a lot of experimentation. Because if I'm studying the human experience, I'm gonna learn about it by being in it. Exactly. Experience, experiment, experimentation, direct experience was always really important to me. And long story short, after a long time of doing all of this kind of on the side, I re encountered herbalism after I made a tour of all of these sort of subjects. And I realized at that point that herbalism encompasses essentially all of this. It is medicine, it is nutrition, it is movement, it is our relationship with nature, it is our relationship to community, it's our spiritual practices. It's all of this. And the foundation of it is one that I believe to be just a general truth, which is, we are nature. And that relationship May seem broken for many of us right now, but the reality is we are still nature. And plants, quote, unquote, plants or mushrooms or herbs, like, those are some of the key ways that we can kind of reconnect and re establish that relationship between our body and nature. So when I re encountered herbalism later on, I was like, oh, I'm an herbalist. This is what I'm doing. Like, I was already practicing. You know, it's like, oh. And so then I studied exclusively herbalism much more deeply for many years thereafter. But like I say in the book, we're all herbalists, whether we know it or not. And we all used to be totally.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:16:35]: It does. It feels very ancestral in a way. I love having people over, and I have my herbal section and I love to just read them and make them something. And I was saying that to a friend and she was new coming over. I was meeting her for the first time rather, and she was like, yeah, that's just like what you used to do. And it feels very true. It feels like an ancestral remembering and knowledge to work with plants.

Rochelle Robinette [00:17:01]: Perfectly put. I mean, it is. That's exactly what it is. And a lot of people. And that's one of the reasons I wrote this book, Like, a lot of people aren't yet at that stage where they can trust themselves or feel like they know enough about the plants. Two, they might be able to read that person who comes over. But then how kind of know, like, okay, so that translates into this plant or this ingredient. I want to create something for them, or I'm afraid to mix these herbs, or where do I even get the herbs? So that's sort of that gap that I'm trying to close because people already are this. We just have to relearn or feel empowered to then live it.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:17:41]: I love the practical steps people can take because I think sometimes it's easy to remember where you are when you're starting out on this journey of being like, well, I'm learning about my intuition, or how do you do these things? And sometimes you're listening to the thing and you're like, well, that seems like 10 steps ahead. And I just really need the first step on the path to getting there. And what a beautiful, important tool for people. When I was studying holistic nutrition, which included herbalism in that. Not to the depth that you have, of course, but it really just felt like, what are we learning in school? Like, why is this not the curriculum? Because these are the essential life skills. How do we nourish ourselves?

Rochelle Robinette [00:18:22]: Yeah, how do we nourish ourselves? How do we listen to our bodies? How do we interpret the symptoms? Yeah, it's so true. I've always done a lot of that in my work and obviously do that in the book as well. It's like, how do we reconnect? How do we start from a place of within as opposed to especially now with the wellness industry being what it is. How do we not start from the place of. This is trending on TikTok and therefore I probably need it in my life to what do I actually need? What is my body asking for? Do I need any of this stuff? And then how to take that first step.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:18:55]: I actually would love to kind of double click on that for a moment and go deeper. Like, what is your take on the industry and what has come of it? Because you've been in this space for a while and as have I. I studied this when I was 17. It's been when I graduated a nutraceutical with my Bachelor of Science in nutrition and nutraceuticals, I was offered a job at Nestle and I was like, nutraceuticals? I'm not going to work in that field. What have I done? What have I done? And it's just changed so much. So I would love to hear your perspective on TikTok in the world. How do people navigate it?

Rochelle Robinette [00:19:33]: Yeah, it's really in a fascinating place. I mean. Yeah, you have been in this a long time. I mean, I remember in our cafe, your tincture. At the time, I think it was just the 11:11, you know, was one of the first products that we brought and one of the best sellers forever. I. Yeah, I think it's in a really interesting place. I mean, are pros and cons. Of course, as with anything, I think the benefit of the sort of magnitude of the wellness industry at this point is that people, more and more people are being exposed to natural alternatives, to unnatural options that are not so beneficial for our health. You see it, especially in younger generations, these sort of shifts away from alcohol, for example, or toward better nutrition or skincare or fitness or these priorities. And in some cases that's very extreme. And that's where you see it as more of a con. You know, it's like it's been taken a little bit too far. The pendulum will always swing as, you know, as it does and kind of recalibrate. I don't think we're in a place of balance at all right now in the industry. And I think that also because of the current administration and A sort of further elevating of conversations around food dyes, for example, or seed oil or functional health. You're seeing this sort of supercharged moment of. Of kind of drastic growth and awareness and exposure. But that's also creating some division within the wellness industry. You know, some of the people that I most admire and respect are like, we need to find a new word for what we do because we don't want to be associated with wellness, which overnight has become a dirty word for some. So I think it's in an interesting place. I think for the most part, it's hard to say this, but for the most part, I think it's probably a net gain for people's health overall. But I think aside from, or in addition to the losses that I've mentioned or the cons that I've mentioned, there's an extreme amount of commodification, there's mismarketing, and then there's the trends that happen on TikTok or wherever else. And we're really missing the forest for the trees. It's like we get hyper focused on fads, trends, or certain topics that are not about the fundamental pillars of health, which have never changed. It's about our nutrition, our fitness, our mental health, you know, these sorts of things, exposure to nature. And those are what matters most for our wellbeing. Not like internal showers. And, you know, I. Whatever, whatever it is. And, you know, just like, tangent for a moment. I know this is not accessible to most people, but after having essentially moved to Costa Rica and after living in a blue zone for a period of time and seeing how simple the lifestyle is and also how healthy it is, not to mention the mindset of the people who live there, which is so different from ours in the sense that they're like, oh, it's healthy for me. I want to do it. Not, oh, that's healthy. I don't want that. I was so fascinated to just pick people's brains, like, wait, tell me that again. But after sort of living there and seeing everything, I come back to New York City. Wellness, like social media, all the things, and I see the red lights and I see the blue, you know, the blue blockers, and I see just 900 hacks trying to recreate this environment that, like I said, I mean, it's not accessible to me here. And all of my biometrics hit the floor when I come back to New York after Costa Rica. And it just sort of reminded me, which is bittersweet, it's how simple a healthy lifestyle can be. But Also how inaccessible it is to so many people.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:23:28]: Yeah. And you touch on essentially the way what was coming up for me as you were speaking was that the system in and of itself, we need 900 hacks because the system needs 900 hacks for this version of a human and a system and a community to try to thrive in a broken system. That is so and so. It's like I see the pros and the cons too because on the one hand, humans are now, we've never been exposed to this level of information and knowledge and that knowledge base as a collective is only growing. And so there's, there's definitely some pros, but I feel like we're trying to medicalize, institutionalize these aspects of natural health into a system that's just so foundationally non supportive to a natural lifestyle. And so it's just this ouroboros, like just this snake eating its own tail. And we're just kind of in this place of there's so much good for it. And here we are, here's where we were born. Here are the things we're trying to simultaneously dismantle and restructure and grow again. And we live here. And, and there's like a gift in that too. So it's so nuanced, one of the themes of our conversation today.

Rochelle Robinette [00:24:47]: It's true. I mean it's fascinating. There's no way to simplify it. We can do the best that we can do individually and I don't even want to say collectively because I think that's giving too much of a pass.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:25:01]: So.

Rochelle Robinette [00:25:01]: Yeah, so I'll just agree that it's nuanced.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:25:04]: Yeah, it is indeed. I would love to hear your take on tinctures because we love them of course, at Rainbo. And I know you wrote a post on this recently and so from an herbalist. How do you speak to them, their efficacy, why you love them, how you recommend one format versus another?

Rochelle Robinette [00:25:23]: Well, I tend to recommend one format versus another depending on somebody's inclination to use that format. I think the goal is always like, well, what's the format you're going to use? And if you're never going to use a table tincture, like use a capsule or a powder or tea or whatever calls you. But tinctures are, I mean to herbalists they're a no brainer. We love them, we use them, they're fantastic and classic and just kind of foundational. But I think to a lot of people, and this, this was something I saw at the cafe, they're still Confusing. It's like, is this topical, is this oral? How much do I take? Can I take it directly in my mouth? Lots and lots of questions about how to use tinctures. And they're such a convenient format, they are so effect. You know, you have this concentrated extract in a shelf stable liquid form that is as simple as drop in your mouth like with your tinctures and drop in the mouth or put it in hot water for a tea, sparkling water, whatever it is. I love spray format tinctures as well. I use a lot of those and you know, it's something that you can carry with you all the time if you want. And I, for example, I love to carry a kava tincture when I travel especially. But if I go out, I generally don't drink alcohol, so I'll like spike my water at the restaurant or something like that. And there's nothing negative to say. I think about a high quality tincture which you can find in alcohol free formats if that's something that you're looking for. So I find them to be underused generally, but such an opportunity for people who want to work with herbalism. The other thing I like about tinctures is that even though it's a concentrated extract, you can see the color, you can taste, you can smell, so you have some sort of connection to the ingredients while you're using that tincture. Whereas with a capsule, it's so far removed, you don't know, maybe you know if it's turmeric because it's so beautiful. But otherwise you have no engagement with the actual plant or the actual mushroom that it came from.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:27:22]: So I love that. I mean we feel the same way and yet people are still confused as much as we educate. And I think that that's just like a form factor piece that they're a little bit more confusing. If you could only have three herbs in your bag for a year, which herbs would they be and why?

Rochelle Robinette [00:27:41]: Well, usually I say top five. So now I have to narrow it down. No, let's stick to three. I love the challenge. I love a challenge in general, I think, I mean the first would probably be turmeric. That herb I just find to be phenomenal for so many things for so many people. Systemic anti inflammatory, neuro anti inflammatory, gut supportive, immune system supportive. Like the list is so long. I think of that as like, like a classic forever keeper. For me it really is. It's something I keep in my routine all the time. I use a capsule with turmeric because I tend to look for turmeric that also has an addition of concentrated curcumin. And usually it's blended also with boswellia or ginger or some other kind of similar anti inflammatories. And also with the amount of travel that I'm doing right now, I have a lot of my herbs in capsule form. I find that to be helpful because I use a lot of herbs and I travel a lot. So that's a handy way to pack light. I would also. I would put milk thistle in there. That's another one that I use daily. And I recommend because in general, in the world, like, we're exposed to a lot of things, our livers are doing a lot of work. If somebody drinks alcohol or uses medication or something, having some support for the liver can be really helpful. But my primary interest in milk thistle in addition to general liver and detoxification support is that that leads to better hormone balance. And we say hormones and often think of sex hormones, which it definitely, definitely is helpful for. I think most women benefit from using milk thistle if they're feeling like their hormones are imbalanced. But that also includes stress hormones and sleep hormones. Hormones do so much melatonin work in our lives. So, you know, and we forget that the liver is part of that. A lot of times we're taking herbs to adjust different hormone levels. But the liver is really helping keep things. Things imbalance. So I love those two. And then I would say kava and that kava would be in tincture form or like a spray kava. I love it in tincture form because I like to be able to see it, taste it. Oh, I like it as a lozenge too. I have a really fun kava lozenge that I've been using.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:29:48]: Will you tell us about kava? I'm less familiar.

Rochelle Robinette [00:29:51]: Oh, yes. I mean, this is like Nettle and I are the oldest friends. Kava and I have the spiciest relationship.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:29:59]: Like we're.

Rochelle Robinette [00:30:01]: I love that plan. So I mean, I've used it for so many different things over the course of my life. Like I was a very anxious child and started using kava when I was very young for anxiety. It can also be used to help with tight muscles, high shoulders. Like it relaxes the physical body and doesn't kind of drunk in the mind. But it is traditionally used sort of in place of alcohol.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:30:25]: So that's what I thought. Like it has some euphoric.

Rochelle Robinette [00:30:29]: Definitely, yeah. Increases sociability, makes us feel a little like it functions similarly to alcohol in its effects. Meaning the Results we get from it. So we feel more relaxed, we feel happier, we feel more inclined to socialize. Yeah, a little bit of euphoria and it's one that you can generally sort of feel in your body as well. So kind of buzzy but not like intoxicating. And I have used that herb on airplanes before, giving large presentations or speaking to a big aud because you keep your clear headedness, but you still feel just a bit more relaxed and grounded. I've used it for headache, pain, tight muscles, sleep support. Yeah, it's fantastic for so many things. And it works on the spot. Not all herbs work right away. It's one you can take and feel right then and there and then again. Yeah, in tincture form, it's so easy to work with. That one's a little too strong to do directly in the mouth, typically depending on how it's extracted, but makes this beautiful kind of magical looking cloud, you know, of effervescence. And a tea makes your mouth a little numb.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:31:35]: Wow.

Rochelle Robinette [00:31:35]: Yeah, that one is a very close ally of mine. So those are my three desert island picks.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:31:41]: I love Rochelle's three. We are all buying those. We're all getting on that great, better lives for everyone. I know you consider yourself a student and a lifelong student, as do I, and I love that. What is something that you are currently unlearning in your life?

Rochelle Robinette [00:32:00]: Well, I'll go with the first thing that comes to mind. My hypnotherapist friend always says, first thought, best thought. So over the course of probably the last two years, really since I started writing the book and spending a lot of time in Costa Rica, I was on this path already to sort of dismantling the degree of integration between myself, my personal self and my life and my work, meaning my public Persona, my personal brand. And, you know, my businesses have been one and the same as myself for over 10 years at this point. And there's a whole thing I could, you know, say about personal brands and that sort of thing, but freedom is very important to me. And I've always felt like life was short. And it got to the point where I realized that I wanted to make some pretty drastic changes to free my future for other pursuits. So I was on that path. But I would say Costa Rica sort of supercharged the progress, if you will, or accelerated the rate of learning. I mean, the amount of things that I've learned and unlearned in that place in the last year and a half is absolutely mind blowing. But I think to choose one I've Been unlearning how to work, to live. And I've been relearning or learning for the first time in my life really, because I've never done this before what it's like to just live and to just be and to really do so outside of the system we've been talking about, outside of convention, in many cases, outside of societal or cultural sort of norms and expectations. And just these grooves that run so deep, they're in our families and our friends and our cities, our towns. We're surrounded by these routes that are highly recommended with lots of, like, elbowing, you know, stay in your lane, like, do what we expect you to do, be who we expect you to be. So I've been unlearning how to do that and learning what it's like to really live for myself and live the life that feels most natural and most true to me. It's been an incredible experience. I am writing about it and probably that will be part of the next book that I publish. But. Yeah. What is it like to unlearn how to show up in the world according to anyone else's expectations of how you're going to show up in the world?

Tonya Papanikolov [00:34:37]: That's such good medicine. I resonate. And I also think a lot of people resonate with that. It feels like a really big moment for that. Do you know your human design?

Rochelle Robinette [00:34:53]: I never remember it. It used to be on my desktop, but it's not here anymore. So. No. The short answer is no, I don't remember. Remember.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:35:00]: Yeah. I mean, I think that there's a big shift that's happening in 2027 that is a lot of that. That there's kind of many going through that transformation internally and as a society and really redefining what it means to be instead of do. And that's really beautiful and resonant.

Rochelle Robinette [00:35:23]: Yeah. I feel in the responses from some people who have glimpses into what the experience has been like for me, I feel the same. They're like, I see what you're doing, or I think I see what you're doing. And like, I get it, I want it. I'm doing the same. Yeah, it feels very zeitgeist, for sure.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:35:41]: What is your relationship like with plant medicines, psilocybin, medicine, journeys, and has that been a part of. Of your path and the learnings and unlearnings and the kind of depth of your experience and knowledge?

Rochelle Robinette [00:36:00]: So my experience with plant medicine began over 10 years ago. The first was a little bit like, I like to jump into the deep END and so my first experience with plant medicine was a series of ayahuasca ceremonies and San Pedro ceremonies in Peru. Well before it was as popular as it is now. There was not a whole lot of information about where to go. There were only a couple of places to go that were at least that seemed safe and these sorts of things. So anyway, that's where it began for me. And since then I've had ceremonies and done sort of macro doses and micro dosing and all the things with various plant medicines. You know, in the beginning I was very afraid, but I also knew that of course, like I needed to meet these plants and the part of myself that was afraid and learn whatever there was to learn from them. I trusted the natural world, even though I was afraid of those initial ceremonies. And I wouldn't say that any of them have been transformational for me. They were certainly memorable and very powerful and cleansing in their ways and healing in their ways. And since then it's been some time, it's been probably two or three years since I've had a ceremony. I did a series of ceremonies with psilocybin in Costa rica and probably 2021 or 2022 and those were the last times for me. That said, I feel like, for me at least I keep my system sort of clear enough and I find myself to be sensitive enough that I feel as if I have quote unquote, psychedelic experiences with nature without ingesting plant medicine. And I would still call those plant medicine. It's nature medicine, if you will. Will and profound revelations and life changing experiences that can occur watching a sunset or walking home after a session of surf or whatever it is. And I think it's a confluence of a lot of factors. But I would say again, the last couple years in Costa Rica I have had my mind blown over and over and over again and I would not even want to attempt to like act had plant medicine on top of that. It was already far beyond any experience I had with ayahuasca. And this isn't a totally sober state. But I think it speaks to the power of nature or us finding our right place or right people or whatever it is. And preparation meets opportunity, if you will. And that transformation can happen with or without the use of these specific aids. So I think, you know, have a deep respect for them. I think that, that the power of what some of these ingredients can do, some of these plants can do for the mental health care industry, for example, is tremendous. Depending on which way that all goes. I don't think they're for everyone. I don't think they're necessary or essential, but I think they're beautiful and powerful. And I have a deep respect for what they can do. I would also say that we can use herbalism and we can have a relationship with nature, and that includes a relationship with ourselves that can set us up to have transformational experiences without needing to have, like an ayahuasca ceremony, for example.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:39:17]: I love that answer, and I love hearing that and sharing that with listeners. Because it's a lot of what my message has been lately, too. I resonate with life just being really psychedelic too. And there's so many ways to sensitize the system to the natural world. And that it can be achieved through so many states of consciousness and spontaneously or through breath work or regulating your nervous system or just communion with your plant allies or mushroom allies. I think that's a very powerful message to share and to get out there. Because I think pendulum is just constantly in this swinging motion in response to the needs of humanity. But that's beautiful to hear.

Rochelle Robinette [00:40:00]: Thank you. The last thing that comes up for me on that point is that I think living with a certain degree of openness to change might also be an essential ingredient in us having those transformational experiences, no matter what the other kind of plant medicines or nature medicines involved are. And I think I haven't articulated this before, but I think probably when we go into a ceremony with a plant medicine, we go in with an openness or maybe even an expectation, often. Right. Of change. I expect to be healed. I expect to learn something. I expect to come out different on the other side. And I think if we live with a bit more of that, that then we do allow ourselves to be affected by that change. And if we want change, living open to it, living openly to it, I think invites it.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:40:55]: And yeah, it's really interesting you say that. Because now what's also coming up for me is openness as a mental construct that I can consciously tell myself I want. But then the experience of resistance and. And what is required is the surrender to which is so soul level and embodied and just like, okay, I give up and I am handing this over to you. And then that's when spontaneous miracles, spontaneous healing happens. And that's when the change enters. And so it's this beautiful relationship between courage to be open and a deep level of surrender in the face of so much fear and resistance and struggle, internal struggle to, like, let go.

Rochelle Robinette [00:41:50]: I couldn't agree more. We are surrendering to the unknown, right? And change Will involve some degree of loss of what we currently know, whether or not we find that comfortable or not.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:42:04]: Totally. And a plant medicine can open that door for you so that you can pass through it more often with greater ease without the need of the. A mind altering plant medicine or kind of know what's required to pass the threshold. Big topic. Big topic. I love this topic so much.

Rochelle Robinette [00:42:22]: Me too.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:42:23]: Yeah, Costa Rica's. Last time I was there the most. I don't even know what to call it really. We won't get into it, but it is just what a place. What a powerful, energetic place. It holds such an immensity to it. I feel, feel and it seems that a lot of people have those experiences there. And I think there are those like, you know, energetic kind of places, portals, ley lines. Like there's a lot happening beyond our maybe awareness.

Rochelle Robinette [00:42:53]: But yeah, it's true. It's a special place. And I also like to mention, I think it's about us finding those places that resonate with us or that we resonate within. And for somebody that will be the jungle and some people that will be the mountains or the desert. But I think incredible things happen when we locate ourselves in those places.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:43:16]: Well, a couple questions to wrap up.

Rochelle Robinette [00:43:19]: Yes.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:43:19]: In 10 years from now, where do you hope to see herbalism or the conversation around this industry? Natural healing herbalism.

Rochelle Robinette [00:43:34]: I mean, I love the idea of this common amongst herbalists phrase that we might have an herbalist in every home once again because we did. We used to. I hope to see a level of comfort with using herbs, a level of trust, a level of familiarity that's been lost in recent generations in terms of working with herbs as a lifestyle. Herbs includes of course, all plants, mushrooms, all the ingredients that we use as medicine. And I hope that we're at least on our way in that direction. I would love to see it. This to me feels like a stretch, but I would love to see it incorporated in the healthcare system like that there be a not a better level of education, but like a level of education for medical healthcare professionals to understand that these options exist and understand better how to use them, either with pharmaceuticals or instead of pharmaceuticals, however the cases warrant. And I think ultimately I hope that we reverse the trend of disconnection from ourselves and disconnection from the natural world and head toward a reconnection with our bodies as parts of nature. And I think that the benefits of that level of understanding, I think the benefits that ripple out from that are really kind of include all of what I just mentioned.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:45:12]: My Final question for every guest I interview is which I feel like you kind of answered, but what's one prayer or message or wish that you would like to leave with our listeners or humanity? Kind of answered it to some extent, but I would love to hear here if you have anything to add.

Rochelle Robinette [00:45:33]: Yeah, I don't think I have anything to add, but I think I can restate it. Actually, you know what? I think I would leave. There's a really beautiful quote in the book that sums this up in a different way, and I want to leave with that.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:45:47]: Of course. Would love to hear that.

Rochelle Robinette [00:45:50]: Okay. I've found that those who seek to improve their health are often driven by the underlying desire to connect with their truest nature. Our health is one reflection of that nature, and it also serves as the medium through which we live our lives. Lives. The better our health, the more fully we can be ourselves.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:46:10]: Yes. That is beautiful. And so well stated. I am so grateful to you for this conversation and the work you do and the trail you continue to blaze. And I can't wait to get my hands on this and to have time with you, which I'm putting out there will happen at some point in Costa Rica. And I'm just so excited for this book to meet the world. Can you tell us about when it comes out, the date, where to find it?

Rochelle Robinette [00:46:37]: It. Yes. It'll be published on July 22, which is less than a week from the time of this recording. And it can be found anywhere books are sold. It's in all the usual places. There's also an audiobook. I recorded the audiobook, which was an incredible experience. So find it anywhere. Books are sold, you know, in all the formats, digital, physical, whatever. Here's the thing. The physical copy is really helpful because it has so many different appendices with the recipes and the herb table and all the those things. The audiobook is also special because I'm reading it, so I am teaching, and I am able to inflect and articulate in a way that is really helpful when educating about anything. And so I was thinking that when I was reading it, I was like, no one else could read this in the same way. These are my words, my sentences, my ideas. And so I'm able to put emphasis on certain points that make some of the material that might be a little harder to understand if you're just reading it through, like, easier. So I have a friend who loves to read a book and physical copy and then listen to the audiobook. I'm not. Everybody doesn't have to buy it twice. But I would say both formats have their benefits, so. And then. Yes, please. It's written to be beneficial for you and your loved ones for years and years and maybe even generations to come. It's. Somebody yesterday called it a bible of herbalism, which made me so move. Yeah. So it's really meant to be. Everything you need.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:48:12]: Well, thank you. That will be in our show notes. And this episode's gonna come out on July 31, so just a week or so after perfect publish date. And yeah. So grateful to spend this hour with you, Richelle. And thank you, thank you, thank you for the work you do.

Rochelle Robinette [00:48:30]: Thank you so much. What a pleasure.

Tonya Papanikolov [00:48:34]: Thanks for listening. Before you go, do you wanna win a bundle of two rainbo PR products? All you have to do is leave a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, take screenshots and email us, and you'll be entered to win. All of the instructions are in the show notes and it takes less than two minutes. We'll pick a new winner every month. Your review helps others discover the show supports my work and gives you a chance to try our potent fruiting body mushrooms. Thanks again and I'll catch you in the next episode. Until then, peace in and peace out.


Keywords:

herbal medicine and nervous system, adaptogens for stress, plant medicine and emotional healing, nervous system regulation, burnout recovery naturally, herbs for anxiety and resilience, holistic health and herbalism, somatic healing with plants, self-regulation practices

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