The Karma of Success with Liz Tran
Ep 22

The Karma of Success with Liz Tran

Episode Summary: 

I am delighted to be in conversation alongside my friend and inspiration, Liz Tran. Liz is an executive coach and founder of Reset, an executive coaching company to CEOs and founders, as well as a meditation teacher and Reiki master. In this episode, we talk about Liz’s journey of coming into an altruistic way of life, her struggles along the path, and how sharing her experiences with others ultimately provided her with a newfound sense of purpose. 

Show Notes:

I am delighted to be in conversation alongside my friend and inspiration, Liz Tran. Liz is an executive coach and founder of Reset, an executive coaching company to CEOs and founders, as well as a meditation teacher and Reiki master. In this episode, we talk about Liz’s journey of coming into an altruistic way of life, her struggles along the path, and how sharing her experiences with others ultimately provided her with a newfound sense of purpose. 

External success is inevitable once your internal world is in alignment. Liz shares the process and inspiration around the making of her new book, The Karma of Success, which was built around intuitive work and the inner genius. Liz and I discuss the cycle of comparison, how Human Design shows up in our professional and personal lives, and Liz details the journey of hitting a rock bottom in order to learn true self-worth. 

We can all find professional and personal success once our internal world, actions, and values are in alignment. Liz believes that when we look for the things we love, we are looking for the things in our “zone of genius” —  and can use those findings to tap into our inner voice to find success as our own greatest fan, cheerleader, and leader.  

This is a candid conversation about redefining achievement on your own terms, and Liz’s process for trusting intuition and following it.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favorite podcast platform. 

Topics Covered:

  • Liz’s writing process and releasing her book into the world 
  • Accessing and trusting your intuition 
  • Why Liz wanted to write her book, The Karma of Success  
  • How to get off the hamster wheel of comparison
  • Liz’s journey toward self-worth and self-love 
  • How sharing experiences with others gave Liz a sense of purpose
  • Liz’s experience with the “zone of genius” 
  • Work as sacred and part of the spiritual journey

Resources Mentioned:

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Show Transcript

Tonya Papanikolov  00:04

Hi, welcome to The Rainbo Podcast. I'm your host, Tonya Papanikolov. Rainbo and I are on a mission to upgrade humanity with fungi and expand the collective conscious. This podcast builds a virtual mycelial network of bold, open minded thinkers and seekers. I chat with experts, thought leaders, healers, scientists, entrepreneurs, spiritual teachers, activists, and dreamers. These are stories of healing, human potential and expansion. Tune in root in expand and journey with us. Hi, everybody. Hello, welcome back. I am like also welcoming myself back because I'm kind of reentering my podcast, space, sacred space to share the transmission of voices and stories, and to allow those to land in the various hearts and minds of anyone who listens. So I took a little bit of time off this summer to just enjoy life and enjoy a milestone with my now husband, Simon. So I'm kind of reentering workspace and the podcasting space. And it's so so nice to be back. 


Tonya Papanikolov  01:26

So I have a beautiful, beautiful conversation to share with you today. It is with Liz Tran, who is a friend of mine and just an absolute inspiration to so many. Liz is the founder of Reset, who many of you may know and if you don't absolutely follow them on Instagram, it's a beautiful kind of curated space where she shares wisdom and communications and beautifully designed infographics about life and work and business and self development and self help and self betterment. And it's just really beautifully communicated through visuals and design, which is just a poignant way to kind of have it land for us in this time and age and space. 


Tonya Papanikolov  02:15

So Liz is an executive coach. And that's what reset does. It's an executive coaching company to CEOs and founders. And before founding Reset, Liz spent a decade working in the tech industry most recently as the only female executive at a leading venture capital firm. She is a trained meditation teacher and Reiki master and studied yoga at the Samyak ashram. She lives in New York City and Norwalk, Connecticut, with her husband Dev and their dog, Grover, and anybody who knows Liz just is like their life is just exponentially better. By knowing her. She's incredible. And we have a very candid conversation today about her journey of coming into this way of living in this way of life and her struggles along that path. 


Tonya Papanikolov  03:05

And she's just very open with us about what that has looked like for her. And the Karma of Success is her new book, which is launching actually just launched. And it is spiritual strategies to free your inner genius. And if you're wondering what the karma of success is, the karma of success is the professional and personal success you will find once your internal world, your actions and your values are in alignment. So in this book, you learn how to access your own inner voice, how to stop comparing your path to others so important and redefine achievement on your own terms. You realize that your spiritual life is not a time drain or a diversion from work, but rather, the essential soil from which all your greatest achievements will grow. The karma of success refers to the inevitable external success you find once your internal world is in alignment. 


Tonya Papanikolov  04:01

And I love this so much so so much. And I love that she's sharing this book and these absolutely timeless wisdoms for how to work and exist in this new time and age. Liz kind of breaks this down in a lot of really easy to digest ways. And she has these kinds of frameworks for mechanical work, intuitive work and the inner genius. You know, there's two kind of central, Central, I guess, themes that Liz and I dive into in this conversation. One of them being the zone of genius, which is a topic that I've been exploring for over a year now and something that I really, really love. We start with intuition. And this is where many people spiritual journey begins there is the process of understanding and believing in our intuition, and there's also the process of trusting it and following it. And so she takes us through that process and And we talk about comparing paths and comparing ourselves to others. And just this, this concept of the zone of genius and the zone of excellence, and how to really spend our time stepping into our zone of genius, so I won't give it all away. But let's get into the episode and learn about the karma of success.


Tonya Papanikolov  05:20

Hi, Liz. 


Liz Tran  05:21

Hi, Tonya, thank you for having me.


Tonya Papanikolov  05:24

Thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to chat with you. As I was prepping some questions and reading through the book. I was just like, I feel like I want five hours with her because this stuff is so much of what we've chatted about personally for quite a few years now. And I'm just so excited and proud of you and this moment and getting this beautiful work and these teachings out to the world and your audience. So congratulations, how are you feeling about doing this and creating this and taking some time to really revel in it.


Liz Tran  05:59

I am surprisingly calm, especially because the process of writing a book takes about three years, which is very cool, because when you look at your bookshelf, and you think every one of those little volumes was at least two years of someone's life, like actually two years of a person's life. And so it's really significant. 


Liz Tran  06:19

And I felt like I was a little bit of a, like, I did have a lot of anxiety on and off through the process of writing it and you know, even before then trying to sell the book, Getting an agent, and for whatever reason, it just feels like it's done. And whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen. And I think whatever happens is meant to be and will be great. And so I'm feeling this very everyone around me is like, why are you so unbothered? I was sleeping? Well, I'm not stressed out, you know, people are like, how do you feel about sales, you know, pushing it almost social media. Like, I'm just trying to connect with the spirit of the book and put it out there. So it feels really good. And it feels like a big shift from I think the process of creating something can have some angst around it. And I don't know, if you felt that way, if it was more stressful with the iteration and trying to think of what rainbo was about versus when you're like, Okay, now I'm just releasing it into the world. But that sort of feels like what it is, is that whatever I needed to equip this book with, has already been given to it. And so now I'm just letting it drift off and see what happens.


Tonya Papanikolov  07:24

Yeah, and the true essence of the book, right is about like, your internal state being a reflection of the external successes that come as always been. You I think we've talked about this before, it's kind of like that was my, when I learned that teaching from yogic sciences and what I was learning. I was like, Oh, you just have to be a magnet, that's like, I remember my teacher had said to me, like, the true sign of success is just being able to, like, do the truest you and have things come to you, and not be like constantly chasing for that external validation, or success, or whatever it may be. So that's beautiful to hear that you're, of course, like, so in tune with what you've created.


Liz Tran  08:13

Well, both you and I are human design projectors. So it really feels like, that's the way you know, I think there's a lot of pressure to, you know, the book I wrote feels really like me, and then there's pressure from all different camps, to put it out into the world. Like my publisher, my marketing team, you know, my PR person. And I think you're right, it's like, you just have to be who you are. And I think that's actually the greatest route to success. And so maybe that's why there's not a lot of stress, I'm not really worried about what power, how people are going to receive it, because I just think, you know, there's nothing I can do about it. Like, I am who I am, so yeah, don't


Tonya Papanikolov  08:55

I, I'm certain it's gonna resonate. And I think what's also cool about the projector archetype is that there's like, I think something as few as 10% of the population are projectors. And it's kind of our time, because of everybody's level of exhaustion, the status quo, like just how we've been working and how we've been trained to work and exist is just not really working for a lot of people. And they want alternatives. And there is this alternative. But before we go too far, I would like to start our episodes with asking guests what one thing you're grateful for us today.


Liz Tran  09:30

Well, this morning, I woke up and I had breakfast with three women who run this space in San Francisco, called 419. And it's sort of like this art community space in this very tech heavy area. And I'm grateful for this conversation that I had with like nearly strangers. We were talking about doing an event for the book there and realizing that there's so much we can learn and so many insights that we can get from people who we hardly know. 


Liz Tran  09:57

And I forget that sometimes and I just feel really grateful that I'll be in New York today to have met these women. And we're all sitting around the table at 1.1 of them was like, wow, you're for Asian baddies sitting at this table. And I was like, Oh, I didn't even realize that. That's amazing. So I think I'm grateful for that. And I spent half my time in Connecticut, like deep in the country these days, like very rural area where there's many days where I don't see anyone except for my husband and my dog. And I split the other half of my week in the city. And I think I'm just feeling grateful for these little connections that you make along the way, even with, you know, strangers that you pass on the street.


Tonya Papanikolov  10:38

Beautiful. Love that. Thank you for sharing. And I'm grateful today to F spent the morning with my sister and nieces be around babies and toddlers. And, yeah, just nice, nice way to kind of fit that into my day. And being here with you. And yeah, this conversation I've been, I've been diving into lots of different aspects of your book, and I'm really excited to chat with you more about it. And so I think where I wanted to start with our chat, there's a lot of avenues around this book. But I think were the two really big things that kind of stuck out to me or this. And we've talked about before, you know, intuition and the concept of the zone of genius. And I think maybe we could start with intuition, and maybe just hearing, you know, it's such a big part of the introduction of your book, but also your story. And I think a lot of people's, you know, entry points into spirituality is their intuition, and also the journey to trusting it, and really listening to it. So can you can you tell us a little bit about that process for you, maybe what you've seen in your, in your coaching work with CEOs, business leaders, just anybody really looking to access this, you know, really critical part of us that we can hone and use?


Liz Tran  11:58

Yeah, great question. I will start off by giving the definition of intuition. I think this is the definition, this is my definition. And it's when you know something without knowing how you know it. And that can feel like an idea that comes to you in the shower, a problem that you solve just on a walk, it can be this instinct to call your mom, and then you call your mom. And she's like I was just about to call you, right. And so it's these little nudges and droplets of information that we receive, and you don't necessarily have the data to back up knowing why they're truthful. But we just know. And we all get these droplets of intuition all the time. 


Liz Tran  12:40

And I think some of us are really good at listening to that intuition. And just saying, okay, like, it's particularly for water signs, the Zodiac, or people who, you know, don't really feel the need to have a lot of data behind what they believe. Intuition always came harder for me because I have a lot of air in my chart, I also have a lot of Earth. And I tend to think, Okay, but how do I know? You know, I didn't trust myself for a long time. I didn't trust my intuition. I didn't trust my judgment. So I was really dependent on external sources of information, reading books, asking people their opinions doing what other people did was right. And as a result, I was missing out on this whole channel of wisdom that was coming to me and I was ignoring because I didn't trust myself. And where intuition has become so real for me in terms of the work that I do, I coach CEOs and founders of early stage companies. It's anything from a company that grows cultivated meat products from stem cells, which is good for the environment, and also good for animals, too, like a company that has 100, chain and 100 store locations of a coffee shop. So things like that it's a very wide range. But at the end of the day, I noticed that the founders that do the best are the ones who trust their intuition. Because the future is so unknowable. The world is so much less certain than we think it is. School gives us all this knowledge. It's like, okay, we're going to prepare you for the whole world. But we're really not prepared at all. And that's okay. Right. I think that the founders who really struggle are the ones who believe or want to believe that everything can be knowable. And so they're presented with a problem. And they're like, Okay, I need to know how, you know, five other founders at my stage did this. I need to know how stripe did this when they're my size, or how Google did this, or my size. And as a result, they're so fixated on, you know what others have done, and they miss out on the solutions of the present that are unique to their own experience. And so a big part of me writing this book, is I wanted to do what I do as a coach, which is to help my clients access their intuition and problem solve without needing to go and scrounge all the corners of the world for every piece of data. Because you know, sometimes the data is helpful. Sometimes it's not. 


Liz Tran  15:01

And people always say, you know, as a coach, you must have all the answers. And it's really not true. I just know how to ask a lot of questions. And I help people arrive at that point for themselves. And so with the book, I want to do the same thing where, before I trusted my intuition, I read a lot of self help and business books. I mean, I'm really a self help junkie, like, it's my favorite. I just love it. Like, I only read it. It's like my favorite category. And, and I still love those books. But I wanted to present a business book that was rooted in spirituality and said, What do you think reader? What about you, let's look at you, let's explore who you are. And so there aren't really a lot of prescriptive answers. But there are a lot of questions. And there are a lot of prompts to go in different directions. And so what I wanted to tell every reader of the book is, you have this whole, beautiful world within you, you have your zone of genius, you have your intuition, you really do know what to do, but the world we live in hasn't allowed you to fully express that. So let's do that. In this book. Let's get in touch with your greatest gifts, your greatest talents, what your intuition says, how you can learn to listen to that. And I'm not going to guide you, your intuition is I'm just going to help you. It's so beautiful.


Tonya Papanikolov  16:14

I feel like this age as well, that we're in kind of spiritually, and astrologically is all about like, you are your own guru, there's always so much nuance, right? Because we've like, as a founder, and somebody with a long history of this, I would say like when I was little a lot of indecisiveness and just like wanting other people to help me make decisions and the path to my intuition and really claiming that was trusting as like similar to everything you just said, and that journey for you as well. It's always a little bit of some of those informed decisions and hearing other people's experiences help you navigate, if not to say like, that's not the way I want to do it. 


Tonya Papanikolov  16:53

But yeah, it's such a fine dance between seeking for some sets of data to help inform decisions, but also being so rooted and true. And I think for me, it's like, if I know the decision is not mine, or it's not being made for me, or it's kind of being informed by a lot of other people's versions of what success should look like, all of these things, there is an internal experience for me, some sort of like a knowing or a hesitation. And those are like the moments that I try and really listen to.


Liz Tran  17:26

Yeah, I think you're so right. I mean, the way I talk about the book is, you know, you need sizzle, which is your intuition, and you need steak, you know, it's both, but we can't, I think the thing is, it's like some of us tend to think that data is primary, that that is the end all be all that is the truth. And then we're missing out on knowing that our intuition is just as valid as data is, as well. And so we can input it, we can use data to expand our perspective and expand our worldview, we can see more examples of this thing that we're trying to do. But at the end of the day, the information isn't to serve as the path. It's just to like expand the terrain. 


Liz Tran  18:02

And then we use intuition to choose our own path. And I think that you're right, it's like in situations where there is a maybe prescriptive way of doing things, it is really nice to lean on intuition there. Because then at least you know, you're like, Okay, I'm choosing what's right for me that choosing what is quote, unquote, right. And one of the stories that's in the book is, and I think maybe you know her as Trinity moves on Wofford, who's the founder of gold, and she talks about how a lot of people were telling her that she needed to raise money from external sources. And obviously, with a small business, that's kind of the dream is that someone else wants to invest money in you particularly venture capital funds. It's like, wow, this is what we really want. And everyone was putting a lot of pressure on her. And they're saying, You need to take this money, you need to take this money. And it did not feel right for her. And probably nine out of 10 people who you asked who are in the industry would have said, take the funding, maybe even more than that, maybe 99 out of 100. 


Liz Tran  19:01

And she just knew that it wasn't right for where she was with her customers. And what she wanted to focus on. She wanted to continue to build products specifically for her customers, not based on what her investors wanted. And so she said no to funding for years, even though everyone thought she was crazy. And it turned out that her instinct was right, she had wanted to build a family business. And eventually, when the timing was right, she did take institutional capital. But I think that's a great version of what you're saying where there's like, kind of a path that everyone follows. And she's like, Okay, this is the time when I really need to tune in.


Tonya Papanikolov  19:35

Yeah, we I had her on the podcast recently, too. And we chatted about exactly that. And just like on a personal level too. As I've navigated some of those things. She's Yes, she's so wise and I'm so happy to hear that that story was shared because it's yeah, it's so inspirational. And it's really interesting because I feel like so many really defining moments in life are the times we say no, rather than yes, and especially when it's like going against what a lot of People have advised us to do you know, and sometimes you make a mistake and you're like, Oh, well, I did say yes. And now I'm here. And there's also a way out of that. There's also a way to navigate that with intuition and with grace and intention and all of these things. Because that's, of course, just a part of left to right.


Liz Tran  20:19

Yeah. I love this concept that knows just as important as Yes. And I went to this retreat, like two weeks ago at omega Institute in Hudson Valley. And Elizabeth Gilbert was there. And she was teaching with this other person named Rob Bell. And she was talking about this concept of saying no, and the way she phrases she's like, what I always say, in my mind, is I say, I see your gifts, but I don't want them something. I'm gonna pass right, like, No, and it's a way of kind of passing on that, you know, you can say no, and it doesn't have to feel bad. 

Liz Tran  20:57

You know, it's not like a rejection to the person. It's just like, Yeah, I see your gifts, but they're not for me right now. And I think that that's really valid, because for a long time, I was a super people pleaser, I said, yes to anything that anyone ever wanted from me. And a lot of my work was really shaped by that. So before I started my own business, then I worked in venture capital. And my job was to help founders, with whatever they needed related to people and talent and things like that. And so a lot of my job was about having a really big network. So whenever someone said, Hey, do you know like, a great head of marketing and be like, Yeah, I knew like five people, you can talk to you? Or it's like, Hey, do you know someone who can do branding for a healthcare company for blah, blah, blah? And I'd be like, Yeah, I know. And so I was always going to breakfast and coffees, and on email, and just constantly doing favors for people. Because that was where I found my self worth was like doing things for other people. And it was a big shift, when I started my own business to learn that, like, I needed to conserve my energy, especially as a projector. And so for awhile, I went to the other side of the pendulum. And when I was saying, No, I was like, no, like, a lot. I hate you. And now I think I finally arrive at a state where I'm just like, oh, like, maybe not. Now, let me think about it. And I also know that I also have to sit with things for a while now. And to give myself that time, it's okay to be like, I'm not sure, let me think about it. Because I now know that I actually am really bad at making decisions right away, I actually need like a full 24 hours to see how it feels in my body. And once again, like pull up my intuition, because sometimes it even just takes time for me to know what my intuition thinks. Yeah.


Tonya Papanikolov  22:39

I so resonate with that I'm the exact same way. Within our team, we have everybody's Human Design mapped out. And it's cool to see who do have that more of that instantaneous ability to make decisions. But ultimately, just learning about human design has actually helped me honor that process of being like, Oh, I absolutely don't need to make this decision on the spot. I need to just like, take in information and sit with it. And my decision making process is a internal and be also quite independent. So it needs like a little bit of space to process.


Liz Tran  23:15

that is so amazing that you do that with your team to give language to the differences in the way that you all work and to normalize and be like yeah, okay, let's like actually put language to define it is very cool. I wish everyone did that with their teams.


Tonya Papanikolov  23:31

It's fun. It is fun. So and one aspect I want to talk about just like a practical piece that you can speak to in your book, something that's just so hard. And I would love to know your advice on the culture we exist in it's just so easy to compare paths. And how does one get off that hamster wheel of like, it looks like this for this person. And even if they know better, I think there's just there's so much imagery, data information outlets, you know, which are amazing, and we're sharing what we're doing. But what's your suggestion for people tuning that out? ending the cycle? What do you say?


Liz Tran  24:12

Okay, so that is so important. I truly, truly believe that. It is possible to create anything you want. And by create, I use that term very broadly. It can mean write a book, it can mean post to social media, it can mean write a card for your friend, you know, whatever it is, it's like your voice, your authorship you being you. It's just like, honestly impossible to create anything, unless you learn how to tune out the crowd and really operate on your own. Especially because social media makes it really, really hard to do that. And so I have been super intentional about this for probably the past four years, and have had to work really hard because I think for so long. On, I really did compare myself to other people. And I got myself into a lot of trouble because of it. 


Liz Tran  25:07

Like, I got married, when I was 26, to someone who, you know, we got engaged after knowing each other for like, three months. And part of that was like, I felt all this like competitive pressure to be like, Oh, he's great on paper. He was perfect seeming, but it wasn't perfect for me. And also, we didn't really know each other that well, and I was in such a hurry to get all these boxes checked, I was like, Okay, I want to live in like an adult apartment, need to like have nice furniture, I want to like, have a stable relationship, I need to be at a certain level at my job, I need to be making over $100,000 A year and I was like, had all these things I wanted when I was in my mid 20s. I was like, This is what I'm going for. And then, as a result, I ended up divorced at 30. And I was like, Well, I guess I actually starting at the beginning. Like I have to start dating again. And that comparison always led me in a direction that wasn't for me. And same thing with my work. You know, I was so deeply competitive about what level I was and how much money I was making. And, you know, the company I worked for, was it more prestigious than other people. And I was really on this as you describe it a hamster wheel. But I'm the only one on this hamster wheel, like everyone else is just doing their own thing, right? Or maybe not. But people are living their own lives, who cares? 


Liz Tran  26:26

No one's even paying that much attention. And I think I realized that was true when the pandemic I had a really big business disappointment. And that was that I had this physical space in Nolita that I built out as a learning studio. And I invested all my savings into it and lost a lot of money because it was operating, you know, at a deficit for a few months. And just when it started to make money, the pandemic shut it down. Because all in person gatherings were closed. So I had this very invisible disappointment. The studio had been written about in the New York Times The New Yorker, Marie Claire, you know, had gotten a lot of splashy press. And it was very visible that I also had to shut it down. I got so many questions from people, what happened? Where did it go? It was like having to admit this big failure in my life. And then after a while, I was like, wait, no one cares. Everyone's dealing with their own stuff. 


Liz Tran  27:22

We're literally in the middle of pandemic, everyone feels some sort of grief about the life that they used to have. And it was that humanizing experience of like, looking around and just saying, Yeah, me too. You know, like, I'm in pain. And so is everyone else, you know, I'm grieving. I feel like a failure. It's like, Yeah, me too. Maybe everyone else is feeling that way, too. And so I think that the first step is kind of normalizing. And when you feel that pole of comparison, and you know, maybe jealousy or feeling bad about yourself, you're like, I think everyone else is feeling this way. 


Liz Tran  27:56

Also, we have this natural programming in us from when we lived in a hunter gatherer societies to fit in and it fit in with a crowd, then it would mean that you died because you would be exiled from your community and humans used to be unable to survive on their own. And so I think just saying, like, this poll is natural, and normal, but I need to give myself more attention. Because when you start looking at what other people are doing, it means that you're not giving yourself enough love. You're not investing in yourself, enough. Your inner child, your future self and your current self are like, No, Liz, look at me in here, me, I need you, I need you. I need love from you. And so I think there's a big investment in like what you're doing today. 


Liz Tran  28:39

And so during this time, during the pandemic, I hadn't really learned how to create my own self worth. Because I had been previously very dependent on external validation, I was always doing really well in school, I was always very tried to be the best, the best at yoga, the best of this bubble, which is so stupid, the best at yoga, and the very opposite of what yoga. I was like, always, like I need to be like, be the best in the yoga class. And if I wasn't, I'd leave the class and feel really disappointed. And what I realized is because I was looking for all this love and validation from the outside, because I've never given it to myself. So when I started doing that, I started writing a list every single day of three things that I did, well, three things I love myself for, and I did this for, like the entire pandemic. And it really rewired my brain. I was like, Oh, I'm doing pretty well. You know, like, I love that you asked me what I'm grateful for, because that was part of the list to it's like, three things you're grateful for that day, three things you're grateful for in yourself, and then, you know, whatever it was that I was working on, like right now I write three things that I think are going well with a book launch, just to keep in that really positive mindset. And when I started comparing myself, you know, there was this one person in my life who was also building a business at the same time as me, and I compared myself to her constantly, especially because she had gotten like quite a bit of investment from her parents. Like you maybe like half a million dollars, they had like, put into our business and like, whereas I felt so bitter because I was like, I had to work my whole life, and pay for school myself and then used everything I'd saved to put towards my business. And it just felt really unfair. And then I was like, who cares? Let her do her thing. You know, like, that's her life that she's living. And I started to try to identify strengths in myself, whenever there was a deficit, like, for instance, oh, I don't have family money that supporting me, I would think, okay, how is this actually a benefit? And I was like, Oh, I'm way more resilient than she is. I'm way stronger. I'm way more independent. 


Liz Tran  30:37

And I'm so much more mature than she is, you know, in all these things where I started to identify, like, whenever something felt like I didn't have enough of something, I was like, oh, no, this is actually a good thing. And it was reframing it. And I think it's really easy to slip into the mindset of like, I don't have enough, I am not enough, and someone has a better than me. But at the end of the day, you can also make the case for the opposite. And I was kind of doing that the other day, my editor was over for dinner at my house. And I was complaining to her. And I was like, oh, man, it was so hard writing this book. Because I didn't have internet in my house. And I was working full time. And she was like you wrote one of the best manuscripts I've ever read. And she was like, Do you ever think it's because you didn't have internet? I think it's because, like, you were also running a business and you didn't have time to just sit around and like, question your self worth, you know, like, you just sat down and he did it every day. And she was like, Baby, your circumstances are actually what set you up to succeed. I was like, Wow, maybe all the things that I think I hate about my life are actually the things that enabled me to do what I need to do. Mm hmm.


Tonya Papanikolov  31:48

you for sharing that it's such a good reminder that the process is so dynamic, right? And, like, it's just a constant work in progress. And every day, just like reminding yourself of these things, I often find that we're so forgetful. And that we need, we need such repetition of concepts, because it just creeps back in. And it's so human, and it's not wrong. It's just, you know, it's partially how our brains are wired, and all of these kind of aspects. 


Tonya Papanikolov  32:19

And it's just such a good reminder. And so like, I think down to earth, for readers to know that this stuff happens to you. You know, just because we we know some things doesn't mean that we're not still like continually growing in the process ourselves. And that's like, it's just real, right? Like, we have good days, we have bad days, sometimes we can't explain why. Then, you know, another thing I was thinking about, as you were talking is, like so much of the premise of the book is like, internal reflects external, right. And if you really think about seeing a shiny object, or a shiny person, you're like, drawn to that person, or they're magnetic, or whatever it is, regardless of what their processes and how they got there for themselves. It's like, the way I find you get there is just by like, really deeply, connecting to yourself and really deeply honoring that person inside of you. And the little you and the inner child and all these aspects. And like when there is liberation in parts of those aspects of us where it magnetic we like quite literally look different, or energy feels different. We feel safe to people, we can expand people, there's like all these beautiful things. And it's really about the process of going inward.


Liz Tran  33:34

I could not agree more. Everything changed in my life, when I started really loving myself for doing nothing, right, just for existing. And I think, you know, because of the way I was raised, my mom really only was effusively affectionate when I won a prize or got straight A's or did something that she could tell her friends about, like brag about externally. So if I did well in ballet or something like that. So I grew up really believing that I had to earn love, like I had to be perfect in order to be loved. 


Liz Tran  34:08

And even as recently as like when I met my, my now husband, this was five years ago when we started dating. I was 33. And I felt really uncomfortable in the beginning stages of like, him seeing me, like just he we lived close to each other. So he'd be like, want to pop by and I was like, oh my god, I'm like not dressed. I don't have my hair done like I haven't like vermin isn't clean. And I really felt like I have to be perfect in order to be loved. I really, really believe that. And in the pandemic, I was so imperfect. I had like, had this failed business. I had lost all this money. I was starting from scratch again. And I was like, I just need to love myself. And so I'd like put on lotion and be like, ‘Oh, I love my skin.’ You know, like little things where I'd be like, ‘Oh, well I really like my eyes today. They're really bright. I love that I journal every day.’ And I just tried to figure out how to love them myself and love like me for not doing anything special. Just existing. And as soon as I did, everything opened up, like within a year, I had a full roster of coaching clients, within like a year and a half, I had a book deal, that was a great book deal. My podcast, listeners went up dramatically. I went from, like 10,000 Instagram followers on the Reset account to 100,000. And I hadn't really done any marketing, it was literally just this investment in loving myself really, really deeply. And I remember when I was 30, and I just gotten divorced, I had a therapist, and she was like, What are your goals? For this work? I was like, you know, I think if I could just learn how to love myself, I'd feel like I accomplished everything I needed to in life. And when I set it, it seemed so far away, like it could never ever happen. And then, five years later, at the worst time in my life, like literally, I thought it was the worst year, that was the year I learned how to love myself. And it was extraordinary, like having to go through all of that pain with starting a dream, like giving up everything, I gave up this big job that paid me half a million dollars a year to start this business, this job I'd worked for for so long. And then the business failed, because like I'm a loser, I judged wrong. 


Liz Tran  36:22

And so in this moment of like, literally rock bottom, that was when I was like, I can love you, Liz, even when you are at your worst, and then it's been fine since then. Everything has really worked out. And so I think it's worth it. It's like, I don't know, our society is really messed up sometimes. Because I think probably a lot of people can resonate with that with feeling like we are more lovable when we are doing better.


Tonya Papanikolov  36:46

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy, right? Like, it's, there's like this sense of always honest, I was just telling you, I just came back from my honeymoon recently. And it's like, it was it's like, obviously, one of the best times of my life. And yet, it's hard to not check my email. It's hard to not do I have been a trained doer. And like, what is me when I'm just being I know I need rest and don't always prioritize that. And yeah, it's just so culturally there. And I think especially when you're even if you're building something you're so passionate about, and you have your life kind of designed in this optimal way. There's still so much intentionality that goes into like, how do I really actively turn off? Can I just sit? And like, where's my mind when I do that? Am I still doing in my mind. So hard.


Liz Tran  37:33

My electricity went out the other day, and I was in the country and my place in the country. And we had a big, big thunderstorm and the power and the internet went out for I had power actually. But I didn't have internet for 24 hours. And I was noticing how addicted I am. To my phone, I was just opening my phone like pushing buttons. I was like, why I don't even have internet. Why am I pushing buttons. So that's the thing. It's like what you're talking about before, it's like, always coming back to doing this process doing this work. Like forcing ourselves to live the life that we know is really good for us.


Liz Tran  38:12

And it's like a never ending not in a pessimistic way of like, oh, man, the work never ends. It's just more like, Hey, this is what it means to be human. We live this beautiful human reincarnation. And we're the only sentient beings out there that can think about the future. Well, maybe mushrooms? Actually, that's true. Oh, yeah. Wow, that's actually very cool. Yeah. But the point being is like, we have this opportunity to be intentional about our lives and how we want to change them. And so it was actually like a gift versus a burden.


Tonya Papanikolov  38:49

I think it's the end, like the concept of coming back to Buddhism, or many, many ancient traditions, it's like, we're so in our culture and our Western culture, it's like, it's all about getting to this destination, like, like, some external place that like, you know, so many people create businesses hoping for that moment, instead of just like, there's nowhere to be what if there's nowhere to be in? It's literally just right here. And like, the journey is the destination, right? It's just, every day at work. You're so


Liz Tran  39:19

right. And I think that's maybe why I feel so happy about this book launch, even though I haven't done anything like like what you know, like, it's not like the book has like made the New York Times bestseller list or something. It's just Yeah, I think. I think the feeling is more just that, wow, I'm on this journey. I'm so happy about that, because of the destination doesn't always make us happy. Like, that's what I learned. 


Liz Tran  39:43

When I worked in venture capital. I worked with all these people who had everything. They were young, they were rich, they were doing this really cool job. And most of them were deeply unhappy. And for the first time I could see people who had everything and realize that's not true. And then I start Doing research about it. And it's called the arrival fallacy. It's when we believe that by getting to the horizon line, we will finally have everything we want, including joy, including contentment, but we're not. And it's why people who win the lottery after a year, they're statistically just as happy as people who didn't win the lottery. Like they're not any happier, even though they have all this money now. It's like people who after they get married, there's this very pronounced effect where people sometimes feel depressed, because they're like, Oh, I was hoping it was like a peak moment in my life. And then it's like, gone, right, it was just a day. And I have definitely felt that myself, like, I kept saying to myself, Oh, when I get an agent, I'm going to be happy. When I get a book deal, I'm going to be happy. And then I thought, I'm still thinking of ways to be unhappy in these circumstances. So it's really not about the circumstances. It's about my mindset, like, okay, like, so. Like, if I can find reasons to be upset when everything is perfect, then I can find reasons to be happy when everything's imperfect.


Tonya Papanikolov  41:01

Yeah, that's beautiful. So I want to go back to the rock bottom that you had, and how there was literally just complete unknown of what your next step was. And in the book, you speak to the zone of genius and how it's although it's so personal, and sometimes counterintuitive, it's like, the more personal we can get, the greater I feel like the greater our message resonates with more people, even though you're like, nobody's going to understand this. And I want to hear about, you know, maybe your own experience in that turning of rock bottom into, like, what seemingly is now just an absolute dream come true. And how you coach other people to maybe see it that way. And then, and then we can talk about zone of genius a bit too, please. Yeah, absolutely.


Liz Tran  41:49

So when I was at rock bottom, there was this quote, that I put on my phone background. And I'd read it every day, because it felt really, like so consoling for me. And I'm gonna butcher it, but roughly it translates to, you're so upset because you think that the world has fallen upside down. But who's to say that the side that it slipped to is not the better one? And I would think about that all the time. And I was like, wow, feels really bad. But what door could this be opening? And I know it sounds really cheesy. But I really thought, you know, how can I make this true? Like, maybe this is the best thing that ever happened to me? And I thought, Okay, now I'm under employed.


Tonya Papanikolov  42:31

How long did it take you to think that though? Like, were you like, really, just in a negative headspace for a few months, or?


Liz Tran  42:39

Yeah, I was in a negative headspace for? Well, I think it's kind of a bind. So I probably felt that way for about three months, in a very bad headspace for three months. And I was very filled with like anger and blame towards myself and towards the world. And then it kind of got to the point where very practically, I needed to get out of it, because I needed to make money. And I had lots of debt to pay back. I had a credit card bill that was very high that I had to pay and rent in New York that I had to pay. And, you know, I had a serious partner at the time, but we were financially independent from each other. And so I really was like, I just need to figure this out. Like, there's a bare minimum. And so I need to put one foot in front of the other, which is actually kind of a blessing because it keeps you moving. I was just trying lots of different things. At the time, I was trying online workshops, and you know, selling people for admission, I was trying like these group coaching sessions, I was trying doing some consulting work more akin to what I used to do my past life. And I really was just very open to anything because I just needed to provide for myself. And so I was like, I'm very open, like show me the way. But I also had lots of time on my hands. And so I thought, Okay, wow, what a blessing. This happened probably about two months in, I was like, I don't I start working on this book that I've always wanted to work on. And at that time, I'd also just gotten a PPP loan from the government. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. This can kind of Tide me over for like three or four months, it gives you enough like to pay yourself for four months, and any employees that you have. And so then I was like, I'm going to use this time to write my book proposal. And so once I had a purpose for myself, I was like, Okay, this is the silver lining, maybe it's not intended to be, but I'm making this be the silver lining. And so that's kind of why at the end of writing that book proposal, when I didn't sell the book, again, I was disappointed. But then I remembered. This is just the beginning of my story. It's not the ending of it. Like, I just need to learn how to write that agent was like, great. She said, this is a great premise. But your writing is not very strong. 


Liz Tran  44:43

And I remember just going on a long run and just crying on the run. And that came back after the run. And I was like, You know what? She's right. Like I knew in my intuition, I listened to my intuition. My intuition said, she is right, learn how to write and then go write an amazing book. And then that's what I did. And so I think during this time when I was During one, I was connecting with my physical body a lot, I had a lot of energy to move. And so I was doing a lot of yoga, I was running a lot, I was meditating a lot, I was spending a lot of time alone, I was crying a lot. I remember I was also just like drinking tons of water, I think I just needed to like get it out on an energetic level. I was reading a ton of self help books, because I knew I was like in it, I can tell when I'm like in a negative spiraling headspace, I needed to get myself out of it. And then I started making this new version of the podcast. So this was about maybe five months into the process, I started making a new version of the reset podcast, took a break from work from what while and then I started using as a way to think, okay, how can my hardships be of service to others? 


Liz Tran  45:43

Because I know I'm motivated by altruism and helping others. And so I was like, How can everything I'm going to have some sort of purpose to it. And that's when the podcast really started taking off is when I changed what it was before. It used to be like me and my two friends talking about wellness stuff. And then it was like, I am in deep pain. Let me like take some time to turn this into, like some valuable learnings on Instagram and on the podcast for people think it was like kind of giving myself some purpose, or giving the situation I was in some level of purpose. And you know, Sheryl Sandberg writes beautifully about that in option B about how her husband dies. And she's like, I had to give myself a reason why this thing had to happen to me. 


Liz Tran  46:24

And you know, I feel really similarly, like I had another rock bottom a couple years later with infertility struggles and going through a lot of IVF. And it was really, really hard. And I started so dumb, but I started going on Reddit, and just like being part of these, trying to conceive communities with IVF. And just like leaving comments, and just trying to be like, very positive, other people sharing my experiences, sharing very vocally on Instagram about like, these ups and downs, because I wanted other people to feel less alone. And then it really gave me some purpose there as well.


Tonya Papanikolov  46:58

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I love the concept of just like one foot in front of the next when it's really uncomfortable. And people just want you know, you want to snap your fingers and be out of it or know the solution. And it's just like a little bit of a friend that's you know, always says like 1% better every day gets you like just, you know, a little bit better by the end of the year. And it doesn't have to be like monumental, but even just some momentum to help to help kind of ease those dark places and times where you're Yeah, at a low.


Liz Tran  47:36

And Pema Chodren says, Nothing goes away until it teaches you what you need to know. And I found that very comforting, because I was like, You know what? I've been put in this place so I can learn. And clearly there's so more learning to be done. Because the issue hasn't gotten solved yet. And so it was always asking, Okay, what can I learn? What what do I need to learn? What do I What are you trying to tell me universe? And maybe what it comes down to is like, ultimately, do you believe that the universe is a benevolent place that cares about you, and then everything good, bad, horrible, is actually like meant to happen for your greatest benefit. I deeply believe in the concept of past lives. 


Liz Tran  48:20

You know, I've done past life regressions where I've seen my past lives, and some of them are really sad. You know, I think anyone who's done past life regressions, you go back in time, like 400 years, life was weird back then. And like, everyone was dying and sick. And so you're like, Okay, My life wasn't very good. But I learned that life represents something. And so I think having that context, I was like, There's something I'm meant to learn in this lifetime. And I think I know what it is, like, it's really about self love. Because I've been through all these other past lives that I've seen. And I actually never really knew how to love myself in any of them. And so I think that became less of like, why is this happening to me and more of like, Why could this be happening for me?


Tonya Papanikolov  48:59

And kind of, yeah, switching the mentality into like, how? Yeah, like letting yourself grieve, for a time. And then also, like, what can I learn from this, and I feel that ultimately, the journey inward and finding spirituality and finding like meaning making in that or, you know, I went for an evolutionary astrology reading a couple months ago, that was just like, just like mind blowing, probably one of the best readings I've ever had, and really just focused on my soul's progression from the last life into this life and what I'm here to accomplish, and like how much it resonated and how much sense things made. 


Tonya Papanikolov  49:41

And it's so exciting to have this time where these concepts are now getting translated into business and into everyday life. And we're not creating these barriers of like, I have to go to the church to pray or just it's just, in my view, a continuous stream and continuing to endeavor for that, and showing people that that's possible that there is like there can be little and less separation between, you know, our passions and our work and life. So this concept of zone of genius, I would love to hear your take on that and your experience with your experience with CEOs in it. Yeah, and I think maybe the journey between like creating something from your passion and maybe from your zone of genius, and then what happens after of like, needing the mechanical stuff of like, okay, how does this logistically work now, and then, you know, you get to the point where you're, like, removed from that fire and passion and making your way back to like, operating in that place?


Liz Tran  50:45

Definitely. Okay, so the zone of genius, I love this idea is that comes from a book called The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks, and it's one of my favorite self help books has a very cheesy cover, and a very cheesy name, but the content itself is good. And the idea is that, you know, all the stuff that we do, falls into one of four buckets. And the first one is your zone of incompetence, it's stuff that you're just flat out bad at, we don't really need to worry about it, because we don't really try to do that stuff very much. Like, I'm not going to try to, you know, be a power lifter, it's just not for me. And then there's your zone of competence, which is similar. It's like things you're okay at, but no one's asking you to do them. Where it gets trickier is the last two zones. One is your zone of excellence, those are things that you're really good at, that other people reward you for, you've probably been paid to do them or sought out to do that work. But it is not fulfilling to you. It does not give you energy. And then the other the last bucket is the zone of genius. And not only are you great at this work, just as you are in your zone of excellence, but it energizes you when you're done doing it, you actually feel uplifted, maybe you're tired, but you feel stimulated, inspired you feel on the type of work where you can get into flow state where you lose track of time, you're like, wow, how did I even know how to do that. And it's a very, very special state that we're all meant to exist in for most of our day, most of our working day. And what's really remarkable about it is that it's actually sort of this upward spirals, the more you're in your zone of genius, the more energy it gives you. So the more you can do, and the faster you can do it, and the more you get done, and then like you know, the better you feel. And the problem with the other three buckets, particularly with a zone of excellence, is that they drain you. And so they are a negative to your energetic bank every day. 


Liz Tran  52:40

And so if you do too much stuff that's in your zone of excellence, you come home, you feel depleted, you just want to eat a sandwich, everyone knows that energy, I just need to go to sleep, I need to have a beer, I need to have a glass of wine, I need to unwind from the day I can think about work. And so the problem is that we don't know the difference, usually between our zone of excellence and our zone of genius, because we've been so rewarded for the zone of excellence. So what I asked my clients to do is to track their energy. So every meeting, you're in every activity you do put it on your calendar, your Google Calendar, or whatever you use, and then put a color like green, if you feel energized when you're done. But red, if you feel depleted, at the end of your week, just zoom out and you're like, Wow, you can very clearly see how much red you have versus how much green. And at a bare minimum, you need at least 50% And your zone of genius to offset the other 50% That's depleting you, right. So 50% is taking away and 50% is giving your editing app at zero. So ideally you want above that so that you can have you know surplus of energy. And especially if you're you know, you're going to do lots of stuff that is incredibly depleting. 


Liz Tran  53:47

Like, for me it is accounting, it is anything related to like finances, taxes, you know, stuff where I have to be in the nitty gritty details. And it's more for myself, like I'm happy during like looking at my clients performance or like financial models and stuff, but it's like dealing with my own shit that really is depleting for me, then, you know, on a day where I have to do invoices, I make that day full of invigorating energizing activities. Like I watch my favorite show, while I do it. I like make myself a really nutritious lunch that I love. I listen to music, I go for a walk before I call my friend afterwards, I buffer the whole day with good feeling energizing stuff because I know I'm going to take a big hit. And so we have we all have this energy bank and we can feel it. You know, it's like when we say things like I'm totally rundown, and then you get sick, right? Or when you're like you feel like you're on cloud nine and you can just keep going, going going. And so it's about keeping ourselves in a state where we're in that upward spiral. We feel like we're not running a deficit. We have a net positive in our energetic bank. And what I do with my clients is I try to do it slowly, where I make sure that they're taking things off of their plate, delegating if they can. Outsourcing in smart ways. Do you really have Do This is there someone else who has to do it. And honestly, that part is easy the tactical part, you can see how it's like a puzzle, you just have to move things around. But the hard part is changing people's mindsets to know that it's okay, that they don't have to do work that makes them feel bad. Like, it's not a badge of honor to be suffering. Honestly, at the end of the day, if you want to build a good business, then like, the best thing you can do is to make sure that you are energetically aligned, happy, satisfied, energized. Like it's not for you, it's for your business, it's for your employees, it's for the people around you. And it takes oftentimes, many months, where my clients keep taking all this stuff, they keep draining themselves, and then they make mistakes and bad things happen. And then I have to point out to them, notice how that big deal came through, when you were in your zone of genius. Notice how like you had this great sales month, because you went on vacation, you know, and then starting to tie that because we're fighting against capitalism, which tells us that unless we feel like we are suffering, and giving everything of ourselves, every last drop of energy, it's not good enough, we're not doing what our job is, especially for CEOs who feel like I need to sacrifice for my company. And then the mindset shift is No, when you are thriving, your business is thriving.


Tonya Papanikolov  56:18

I love that so much. So much. It's, you know, we've chatted personally about this concept. And, you know, as an anecdotal personal experience to share, it's often the cause of burnout. And for a lot of creatives I find who are not structure and process oriented, who it's your first time doing something, whatever whatever the case may be, it's just, I have this audit sheet of my time that is just like, I try and do it as often as possible, at least once or twice a year. I'm trying to do quarterly, where I just make a list of all of these things that I'm doing in my day. And does it bring me energy? And can I delegate it? 


Tonya Papanikolov  56:58

And the other thing I find so interesting, too, is that I have personally found it really easy to put zone of genius because it doesn't like my narrative around it was like, Well, this is not worth it. I'm gonna put this on the backburner, like me taking that space or me. Like getting inspired by being outside in nature, even though I know like intuitively note, this is like what you're saying is not true for you. But I would put it on the backburner and just like deal with thing in the moment and my big lesson over the past year since like, last fall, when I did start hitting that wall of like, I'm breaking like this business will break if I break so that can that get those gotta be another way. And it's like that. Just seeing how I've put that on the backburner and wanting to bring that back to the forefront. And trusting like really trusting that that's, that's what's needed.


Liz Tran  57:52

You know, the way that I've been thinking about it is like, I don't sit down to do my work, unless I feel like a 10. Because it is not honoring my work to sit down and like feel like the worst version of myself. Like, work is sacred. And work is like this book is about how like work is a spiritual journey. And like, would you go to get married, like have a union of souls, when you feel like, you're hungover, you're like, you know, you're tired, you're exhausted, you're burnt out no, like, you wouldn't be showing up and doing justice for that. And I think the same thing where like, it is my job to make sure that I'm showing up at 110%. And it was a really beautiful thing where I was coaching this group of founders. And they had all raised a series B. And so they're, you know, a little bit further in their journey. And I said, you know, everyone share one thing that is helpful for the group thinking that they would share like a vendor they were using or like a software, like a book they're reading, but every single person's thing was around this idea of like, bringing out their zone of genius about self care about energizing themselves. When person was like, I literally give myself a pep talk every morning and tell myself how wonderful I am and how great the day is going to be. 


Liz Tran  59:06

The person was like, I shoot 100 Free throws with my son, but the person was like, Oh, our take ashwagandha. And like all these supplements, and they make me feel great. And so that's actually the thing like, like you said before, it is about like the 360 person, we are holistic. And we all come into this world with like these gifts, and we need to value those gifts and say, I'm going to be the vessel and the vessel is very clean and clear so that you can show up the gift can show up for the world.


Tonya Papanikolov  59:35

The beautiful the beauty is that the book, the book helps kind of guide readers through that journey, right of discovering how to access all of these pieces, their intuition, like the self awareness around the zone of genius and how to tune into that.


Liz Tran  59:50

Yeah, I'm so glad that we're having this conversation because I like knowing you and being your friend. You are the embodiment of what we talked Talk about this book from, you know, a spiritual leadership perspective. So I'm glad you liked it because it means, you know, truthful. So I'm really happy to hear that.


Tonya Papanikolov  1:00:10

I'm so excited to share this episode and for this book launch and so, so grateful for our chat today, would you share one last wish prayer intention that you have for and with the audience?


Liz Tran  1:00:24

Yes, that's a beautiful prompt. I love that so much. My wish is that everyone moves through the day, looking for things that they love about themselves, looking for the things that are your zone of genius. And so at every moment, whenever you switch an activity, I would love for everyone who's listening to think of one thing they love about themselves. So let's say you go to the bathroom, and then like, you're washing your hands and you're like, I love this outfit I put on today, you make yourself lunch, and you're like, I love that my body has the ability to digest this food, you know, or then you like, go write some emails. And you're like, I think I'm actually really good at writing emails. through the day with this lens of like, just being your greatest, your own greatest fan and your own greatest cheerleader.


Tonya Papanikolov  1:01:09

I love that so much. Thank you.


Liz Tran  1:01:11

You did a great job with the podcast today. We did a great job with the podcast. It's such a good job with


Tonya Papanikolov  1:01:15

this podcast today. And yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for creating this book and for just sharing being so honest and sharing your journey and the beautiful fruits that have come with that it is so inspiring. And yeah, I'm so excited for this book. Yeah,


Liz Tran  1:01:32

Thank you for this conversation. Tonya.


Tonya Papanikolov  1:01:34

Thanks so much, Liz. With deep gratitude. Thanks for tuning into this episode. If you liked it, hit subscribe and leave us a review that is always very appreciated. Mushrooms transformed my mind and body. And if you're interested in bringing medicinal mushrooms into your life and health journey, check out for our meticulously sourced Canadian fruiting body mushroom tinctures. Until next time, peace in and peace out friends.



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